General Discussion

General DiscussionClinkz is nuts this patch why no one picking?

Clinkz is nuts this patch why no one picking? in General Discussion
Where is my Hu Tao

    The hero is a team fighting god now. You can always out last hit with ur w. Free invisble forcing the other team to spend 1000s on sentries and if you win a fight super fast tower push. The hero has it all.

    Here is just 1 example
    https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4321133690

    You can high ground defense really well with skeleton army. After you get ur refresher it is rampage every team fight. The item build up is extremely easy too. All stats items, helps in hp, helps in mana reg and high damage.

    Also due to the super long cast range of your ult you can place it anytime a fight breaks out even if ur a screen away.

    Este tema ha sido editado
    Ritsu x boni = 0 IQ

      He gets picked

      Where is my Hu Tao

        rank 70 in picks how is that he gets picked?

        Ritsu x boni = 0 IQ

          Clinkz 4.66%
          52.48%

          In divine/immortal bracket, he gets picked sometimes as mid

          Where is my Hu Tao

            well I am glad people are noticing it in immortal bracket. Refreshor clinkz is no joke. Even if ur half the networth as the other cores you rape teamfights.

            Khéops-

              His base damage is a serious problem -- I feel like the ult honestly doesn't do enough against certain teams. I've seen them cleaned as they spawn (1st is destroyed before last spawns) ; a single crimson & vlads basically totally negates the ult.

              Giorno Giovanna

                @NineooSix

                Change your itemisation in order. You have to build K&Y > Lance > Etherblade > Refresher. Otherwise you will have a really really late refresher and you miss out much farm and potential. Check out my item build

                Where is my Hu Tao

                  So you are saying k and y first before lance? Lance helps ult be a bigger aoe? For that game though they were knocking on our rax at like 20 mins i needed the refreshor fast

                  Marko Bulat

                    Hero is garbage, you are walking creep until midgame or later, ult is very easy to deal with, its maybe good versus some range setups, drow strats etc but i doubt it, there are much better heroes to deal with that stuff.

                    Where is my Hu Tao

                      I dunno man. Skeleton army so hard to deal with so many times a team fight breaks out a support goes to stun and just dies to the army in the choas.

                      Moranague

                        ^pinsoul

                        I'm not trying to sound like I'm good, but what is the logic of Kaya and Yasha on Clinkz? To my knowledge, he doesn't benefit at all from the spell amp damage as the ult is based on physical attack damage. Surely you're not saying 12% bonus damage on arrows themselves are worth it? (I'm not even sure if they get spell amp'd). And even then, wouldn't it be far more beneficial to have an orchid if you're looking for damage and mana?

                        I mean, SnY makes more sense, but even that I wouldn't get. Please let me know the logic of K and Y, and what I might be not understanding.

                        Where is my Hu Tao

                          kaya cost 2050. Easy to build. Lowers mana cost of burning arrows, strife and ult. Verses Orchid cost 4075. The main problem comes with timing and pacing of the game. Where as I would have a kaya and maybe killing people you only have a oblivion staff. Which only gives 1.25 mana reg. Later in the game without the kaya you are unable to have enough mana to ult refreshor ult. Personally the only real reason for the orchid is for mana reg which clinkz needs. The silence is nice but it is quickly counter by manta, linkens, forcestaff, glimmer etc.

                          Jack__Attack

                            I pick clinkz visage and beastmaster mainly this patch.

                            Peekaboo

                              Hey friends, Friendly neighborhood clinkz spammer this patch. almost 90 games, And trust me, before this patch i was a horrendous clinkz. Now, Opendota recognises me as a top 100 Clinkz player.

                              The hero is aboultely bonkers right now when placed in the right hands, The hero offers, Ganking, Teamfight, tower push and single target DPS.

                              The Major flaws with Clinkz is - A, ChrimsonGuard, Heros that don't die to your ulti (Pugna, Bristleback, TA, Kunkka etc)
                              B, Illusion/wave clear (Naga's, PL's, Shoving lanes)
                              The major pro's to clinkz is Alot of people don't understand what is good against him and they pick heros that 'used' to be good against clinkz. Skywrath, Zues used to be notoriously good against him, and Sure on paper if you get to the right items you are, However Clinkz absolutely Farms any hero that can't escape his ulti and forces them into awkward item builds (ghost, forcestaff rush) etc.

                              If you want to play clinkz at a higher level, you should know when to pick him.
                              Clinkz has some Excellent matchups, and some abysmal ones. Pick him when you can A. Kill the enemy midlaner with your ulti (rubicks, Tinkers and 99% of the support cast), B. Your safelane carry wants to hit creeps (Jugs, Trolls, Voids, TB's). C. When you want to win some MMR.

                              The standard build is 3 Wraithband, treads into medalion, Or, 2 wraith, Wand, treads Medalion. (If you have a medalion carrier on your team, Skip it, you can use the extra item slots and would prefer not to buy it.
                              (ferry mangos + tangos to sustain searing arrows.. Tangos are better than salves, because you don't have the HP pool to utilise a full salve)

                              After your treads, 3 wraithbands, medalion. My 3 most common builds is, A. Dragonlance (I want to push towers, the attack range works on your burning army), B. Maelstorm (i want to shove lanes, kill Strength heros, You can use straife without searing arrows and clear waves with maelstorm to conserve mana) C. Diffusal - (I want To gank/Fight and i have a carry who can shove lanes for me). D. Orchid (I want to Kill a hero that would be unkillable without it) C. Midas (There is no item worth 2k gold that will change the outcome of the game at this current moment, Clinkz scales incredibly well with levels).

                              After Dlance + Diffusal (standard build), Your next item should be something along the lines of - Bkb, hex, refresher, Linkens, Butterfly, Ethblade, nullifier etc. If you can get a doomstick (bloodthorn, Nullifier.. You're probably in a stupidly good position to win the game)

                              Clinkz Plays off the map... Remember that, You should always have atleast 1 clarity running and 1 clarity in your backpack.
                              Kaya Yasha is a trap, it is a 'winmore' build, and i wouldn't recommend it, People buy it because Clinkz is an incredibly mana hungry hero, however with appropriate tread siwtching, clarity usage and only using searing arrows when you need them you should be able to sustain yourself.

                              Talents
                              - Magic res or armour is game dependant
                              - 30+ searing arrow damage 100% of the time
                              - 18 health regen or Attack range, Ironicly enough this one is debatable, Attack range is the clear obvious choice, however health regen has a higher winrate and personally in games where i've picked health regen (i have Hex + diffusal or something) it allows me to stay on the map permanantly.
                              - Multi shot searing arrows.

                              With a Standard, Bkb- Treads, Diffusal, Hurricane pike, Hex, BKB, Refresher, Your burning army will hit for (before reductions) 300 damage per shot(x6) And each of those army will multishot (600 damage per shot -split (x6) X2 with refresher, x3 with refresher ORB.

                              That is incredibly difficult to teamfight into.

                              Use your ULTI as a ZONE.. notice how a Monkeyking will ulti pre emptively Wu'kongs at a tower, Roshpit etc to zone the enemy team, Think of your ulti in the same way. Cut off the support line or Place them in an area to succure an objective, Tower's, roshan's etc.

                              your job in a teamfight in most cases is to split a fight up and segrigate the supports from the cores, if you can isolate a hero, use it.
                              When im snowballing (most cases, every ulti results in atleast a kill or an objective), I'll try and use my ulti on the highest priority hero on the enemy team, That could be the antimage, it could be the doom.. Judge it based on your understanding of the circumstances, If you can't Get the Big ticket kill, use it to farm a support hero and try again annother day. I don't know of any support hero in the game that can survive a well positioned, midlane Clinkz Ulti.

                              So how do you beat a clinkz?
                              You deathball, You buy Chrimson, you buy vlads, drop a sentry or two and hit some towers, Clinkz thrives when heros are separated.

                              If you can't get kills, Go for objectives and backdoor all the tier 1's with straife, Snipe some couriers.

                              oh and little tip, lvl 1 with 2 slippers, Fairefire, Circlit, branch you can snipe a walking courier in one shot.. Do that, Do that alot, i can't tell you how many times Immortal level players forget this when they are trading hits with me and i run past them into thier tower tower and 1 shot it, Straife back to the midlane, buy 2 mangos and some tangos and forget it ever happened.

                              Flying couriers require Agi treads, 3 wraithbands + Dragonlance.. If you have Int treads you cannot 1 shot the courier, it'll live on 1-10 hp based on your damage roll.

                              To play Clinkz, You HAVE to be able to last hit without searing arrows, and understand how many hits a creep will take with/without searing (if its 1 hit without, 1 hit with etc) If you don't do this at all stages of the game, you will be out of mana.
                              Please don't buy Deso unless you are ending the game with it, That item is trashcan on clinkz

                              Play your matchup. eg, Drow vs clinkz.. You'll beat him to 6, Kill him, Once that hero is 6, He will out farm you if you play static, DO not freeze the lane and farm last hits/denies, Push the lane and eat his tower, Get a support to eat xp mid and chase him round the map, Don't let him play the game he wants to play, Sentry block his ancient camps and Farm him. IF you go 50-50 with a drow, the drow will accelerate out of control. If you forget hitting creeps and start hitting heros, the drow is incredibly SAD, Same concept with Tinker etc.

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                              Peekaboo

                                oh, and you're welcome. Xo

                                CUTNPASTE

                                  Is soul ring worth it, I played a couple of games and I constantly had 0 mana. I also considered bottle for the same reason.

                                  Feachairu

                                    how do you snipe the walking courier? do they just send salve and they on your highground or something/your part of river

                                    Peekaboo

                                      @cnp, I've played somewhat 90 games on the hero this patch, never bought soulring once.. if you clarity spam, use searing arrows on INT and have a medalion, you should be fine with mana control, Arcs on your team help alot too.
                                      you just gotta manage when to and when not to use searing arrows for creeps.
                                      For midlane, i buy a mango with each wraithband, I butter them up before the lvl 6 and double mango on the wagon wave (lvl 6 timing) in hopes for a cheeky pickoff

                                      @feac, If they missplay or i contest rune with no block, sometimes on your way to mid you can catch the salve courier.. Its rare but its kinda like 'hey i know your courier is coming, so i'm going to orb walk at you past this creep wave and they get stuck in an awk place.

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                                      bearcat0611

                                        Ill be honest in the games of clinkz i've played I haven't really felt like I was mana cramped, though i guess I was usually against an am and so was rushing orchid.

                                        Murranji

                                          ^saw fluent in chatwheel playing as clinkz in one of my friends games a few weeks ago and game was over very fast (though the enemy draft was really bad).

                                          Peekaboo

                                            Aw shucks hombre, do you recall which game? Clinkz is a very Early midgame powerhouse, alot of the time you can end with Diffusal, Dlance and a good teamfight

                                            Giorno Giovanna

                                              @fluent in chatwheel If i compare your games to HIS games : https://www.dotabuff.com/players/909264953/matches?hero=clinkz

                                              I prefer his item build more than yours. And i dont agree with kaya / yasha is overrated. its his core item right now in every game.

                                              You could buy dragon lance before but than you will lack with farming speed. I suggest buying it after K/Y and after that your itemization is flexible but most of the time etherblades will do the best job since u only need a goog placement with your ulti. No need for BKB at all of your clinkz games if you know how to position yourself. Diffusal is waste of money just like BKB. With that gold you could get so much agi that you will clear every fight with just your ult. The Pike and etherblade is enough for giving you escapes. check this dude out.

                                              Giorno Giovanna

                                                @NineooSix Stop rushing refresher man. you need 5000 gold for regeneration and double ulti when the ult is allready strong enough. Better to focus on items that make your ulti stronger like pike / etherblade / butterfly / linkens and after that as 5 or 6 slot item you get refresher

                                                Peekaboo

                                                  @pinsoul, https://www.dotabuff.com/players/88162338/matches?date=patch_7.20&hero=clinkz&enhance=overview <- My 7.2 trial and error, While yes my Winrate is less, that can be due to just fluxuation or w/e, because i was sitting at 75% for a while.

                                                  I highly highly dissagree with his build, I think its horrendous because he is basing his entire build around a gimmick and an ulti.
                                                  I also build my build for the game, Clinkz is flexiable enough to do so.
                                                  My research into clinkz builds was litterally everyday on my watch tab seeing what the top players were building, (Ark_dota, Zai, Midone etc) and based my own understanding from that, and like i said.. the most common build is 3 wraith medalion, Dlance, diffusal.

                                                  The guy litterally goes the same build everygame, That shows he is a very bad player.

                                                  Kaya litterally offers you nothing, and Diffusal + Dragonlance is the most cost effective stats you can get, not even including the perks/slow it gives you

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                                                  Giorno Giovanna

                                                    A Bad Player that reached Rank 2000 with only playing one build :) and yes i did Same researched He was Rank 1 clinkz dotabuff.

                                                    Well i wont discussion this Out, this is DotA :)

                                                    Where is my Hu Tao

                                                      I think kaya good will continue building it

                                                      shady_stuff

                                                        this is top 100 clinkz
                                                        why are u dissing him

                                                        Peekaboo

                                                          @shady/pinsoul

                                                          I did alot of research into what builds the highest ranked clinkz players were building and why, This can't be done by clicking on dotabuff because PRO players don't have an open public profile, looking at your 'top 100' on dotabuff isn't a good way to judge, at all.

                                                          https://www.dotabuff.com/players/96189126 - Ark Dota is Gold 18 on clinkz, Rank 30 EU and a proffesional player for T2/3 teams.

                                                          Midone, Gold Tier Clinkz
                                                          Topson, Just won TI
                                                          Zai, Playing for a T1/t2 Team Offlane
                                                          Illidan, 19x Rank 1 on EU - Gold Clinkz

                                                          These are just some of the players i followed thier progress, and in almost every single case they build situationally to the game, the only exception being
                                                          'The most common build' - Dlance- Diffusal- 3 wraithbands - treads , end the game.
                                                          When one of the players picks up an item in a game, i try and understand why they picked it up, i then continue watching to see if it worked and if it didn't work.

                                                          That is why i'm dissing him, because his build is horrendously bad, I'm sure he's a good player and its the fact that clinkz is broken thats carrying him, but his build is trash.

                                                          I wrote you a free extended guide, explaining basic item choices with when/where to pick them up, you can say those builds are trash but those builds are the builds showing up in the highest ranked Pubs/Scrims and there has to be a reason for it.

                                                          Feachairu

                                                            i kind of get the "i know your courier is coming" and you trade hits,ty lol
                                                            not rly get the other words tho

                                                            Peekaboo

                                                              What don't you understand? you can add me and we can chat about the different nuances of midlane strategy, i'm sure you can give me some tips aswell

                                                              CUTNPASTE

                                                                From my five games or so diffusal seems really strong, just drop ulti+diffusal and every hero in the game dies. Lance and the range extending talent are also strong because it buffs the ulti a lot.

                                                                TokyoTokyo

                                                                  clinkz spammer here. the problem is he is very squishy now. compared to the meta heroes.

                                                                  Giorno Giovanna

                                                                    Thats why you play him comepletly as a teamfighter with his new ulti. You dont need to be sustainable. You position right put your ulti and kill 1 of them with your strafe. Ulti will do the rest. This Fluent in chatwheel wont understand that you dont need diffusal in this patch where you are only teamfighting and taking objectives.

                                                                    And this example is really bad: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/96189126

                                                                    because he played clinkz last time 4 month ago when he was not able to be a good teamfighter. If you wont understand that kaya / yasha is nuts then you have to try it or stop discuss because i tried both

                                                                    PS: I only need 1000 games for the same ranking you have with 7000 games. There is a reason why

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                                                                    Giorno Giovanna

                                                                      You want good replays and high ranked clinkz players?

                                                                      https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4317909728?guide=224c1f
                                                                      https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4319436955?guide=f9b987

                                                                      Even both if possible:
                                                                      https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4317164248?guide=483953 (Diffu and Kaya/yasha)
                                                                      https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4321243175?guide=866dbe

                                                                      Some build like this;
                                                                      https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4322224244?guide=783eb6

                                                                      doesnt matter how you build if you can play clinkz and you are not playing against illusion heroes

                                                                      Peekaboo

                                                                        @pinsoul, My example was Referring to and showing you that Dotabuff is not being a Way to look for builds or Trends on heros, because Professional players and high ranked Spammers hide their profile so other people can't see what heros they are practicing. Since then Ark must of had somewhat 200+ clinkz games to get level 18 etc.

                                                                        I used my Watch tab and searched for 'Clinkz', if there was a really high tier player playing id watch it and decide.

                                                                        YnK is a 'winmore' item, It is fundamentally bad in most cases

                                                                        'he is not, completely as a teamfighter' - That is only utilising one part of his KIT.
                                                                        It's like tidehunters/enigma's that go mana boots + blink, They offer nothing except a ravage... If you build Meks, pipes, solar crests etc. You'll offer significantly more to your team than relying on a large COOLdown..

                                                                        Diffusal is the number one item to buy on clinkz, if the game allows you to get it.

                                                                        Why would you base your entire build around a singular part of his KIT, If i have a clinkz on my team, he has Diffusal, Dlance . He offers significantly more than your shitty, KNY + soulring??

                                                                        He can actually solo kill people..

                                                                        Lategame, If my clinkz is 6 slotted with my 'Standard' build.. I would have, Boots, Pike, Hex, BKB, Diffusal, Refresher.

                                                                        Having BKB on clinkz is almost nessasary because your role on a team is usually to look for kills and hunt, which means most the time you're in the engagement early on.
                                                                        Higher ranked players will have sentries everywhere and without the bkb you're going to have a BAD time.

                                                                        Never underestimate double hex, double bkb, double burning army.

                                                                        Rather than this shitty, butterfly, KnY, Ethblade?

                                                                        Like Cool, your ulti deals some damage, you have no utility, you can't start a fight other than with an army, You have no surviveablity other than an ethblade which you dont want to use on yourself so you can't scout. You're litterally just waiting for someone on your team to start a fight for you, Which they'll find incredibly hard to do because you can't scout with 1000 HP at 40mins, without something defensive invis or not.

                                                                        And you want to build soulring??? on a hero with 1200 hp str treaded? you're losing 15% of your HP feels pretty bad, unless you have the lvl 20 Health regen talent, and by then mana isn't a problem.

                                                                        PS: If you're so good, get the Star then and respect my opinon. xo Having this many games on a very large amount of heros means i have a wide understanding of the game, Sure you can Climb to X rank super fast ??? - is that even fast, i mean.. However there will be so much extra dota knowledge that someone like myself will have over someone like you, purely because i've seen more interactions.

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                                                                        Giorno Giovanna

                                                                          Wtf Dude Play your shit Like You want but dont give people wrong advices. Clinkz is a Teamfighter now You dont Need to get solo Kills in this Meta where You end Games after 20 Minute wtf. Each clinkz ulti is one objektive. Fuck bkb Dude You seriously live in a Dreamhouse where You dont want to Accept Others possibilities unless You try IT Out.

                                                                          With your 50% winrate youll be Immortal in 5000 more Games. I wont discuss with Someone that isnt able to try Others perspectives.

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                                                                          Feachairu

                                                                            i don't think i'm qualified of giving tips or advices now,very sux atm
                                                                            sure i'll add you tho,i think better we chat here so ppl can see or smt

                                                                            idk,i kinda don't really understand the misplay since it's a bit vague,also the rune thing
                                                                            i kind of get it probably but not really understood it,i guess

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                                                                            Giorno Giovanna

                                                                              Level 25 clinkz with boots, K/Y, Pike, 2 Etherblades if Butterfly is not needed, refresher will do fucking 800 Damage on 1 skellet which means 6 x 800 = 4200 Damage every second for 20 seconds.

                                                                              If you are playing him like before patch 7.2 i dont wonder why you have not a single game with over 15 kills on MIDAS Build WTF.What a fucking waste to build midas on clinkz and still u win games. Just imagine you will build correctly and focus on pushing objectives with your ult how much better you will be

                                                                              Edit: With refresher after 2 eblades you will deal 8400 damage every second with a quadra split shot. No more need to say you will have easyest teamfights and no need waste gold for a BKB

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                                                                              Feachairu

                                                                                is refresher even a good choice,just for example you cast 2 ults at rosh and then all enemy team bb,wat the heck can you do after dat

                                                                                Peekaboo

                                                                                  https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4304421390 .. Sure thing man, not 1 game over 15kills Your build wouldnt have been able to catch an antimage.

                                                                                  Build situationally to your game, Don't just follow a '1 build fits all' strategy.
                                                                                  if the game calls for a build like the one you stated, then sure i'm open to going for it, but in most cases a game like that is incredibly rare.

                                                                                  I explained midas choices btw, If there is no other item in the game you can buy for 2k that'll change the outcome or allow you to take objectives, then you can buy it.

                                                                                  And yeah refresher is an excellent choice, usually 5th/6th slot When you need to teamfight for 3rd rosh timing or something

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                                                                                  Feachairu

                                                                                    ah so you don't buy refresher at midgame right? i saw some of your games buying ref at 25-35 min or something or i misview
                                                                                    or it's just a last minute purchase since you already won or something

                                                                                    so basically,buy midas if you think all other items doesn't really benefit that much at the situation? and winning the lane?

                                                                                    Giorno Giovanna

                                                                                      "is refresher even a good choice,just for example you cast 2 ults at rosh and then all enemy team bb,wat the heck can you do after dat"

                                                                                      Who says you need to use refresher when 1 ulti is enough. but after rosh you can use it to get racks maybe.

                                                                                      but if you use refresher on high ground you can get 2 racks safely. You underestimate the damage you have with k/y. you can test it in demo mode against diffu. But the highest argument for k/y is that you have allways enough mana to constantly fight and have high pressure to objectives. Midas is waste bro.

                                                                                      But jea antimage is a problem late game and for this you can go for nully and orchid, but i prefer to kill rest of his team with a well placed ult and let your carry do the rest

                                                                                      edit: and k/y gives you nice movementspeed / nice stats (what you really need in this patch with clinkz) and high mana reduction on your arrows and spells.

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                                                                                      quest to questing

                                                                                        pin just shut the fuck up

                                                                                        the fact is that fluent has already said your build might be valid in certain games but ultimately being situational is more important and you argueing against playing adaptively is the most donkey idea i've ever heard

                                                                                        and honestly rank 2.9k is still trash, i was at rank 2.9k myself a few weeks ago. most immor players don't bat an eye when playing against ranked players from 2.5k~4k onwards because honestly there isn't a huge fundamental difference in skill at this point

                                                                                        you've given a good build and explained it, fair enough, calling a player ranked much higher than you stupid and bad at the hero is dumb

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                                                                                        ubica

                                                                                          medalion desol hex FeelsGoodMan

                                                                                          however yea ulti doesnt feel useful agaisnt crimson guard, gotta wait for it to be used.

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                                                                                          Kreuger

                                                                                            Clinkz is ok his ult feels a little lackluster, vlads and crimson guard kinda nullify it's dmg. Illusion heroes make short work of the skeles. I feel like the suggestion of kaya and yasha is innane. It's not a huge amount of amplification nor is the reduction costs and it leaves clinkz extremely vulnerable to any burst heroes. For example if a lina catches you under a sentry clinkz is going to die because he has little hp. Sange and yasha makes more sense at least you get more raw hp and the status resistance can come in clutch allowing you to pull off a skeleton walk last second. stacking agi like pinsoul suggests seems rather wasteful.

                                                                                            fx

                                                                                              A non bluestar trying to argue with a blue star. Use your blue star power to assert dominance you trashcans

                                                                                              Where is my Hu Tao

                                                                                                There were a few games I got refreshor fast but that was due to heavy pressure I was facing. We were getting high grounded constantly. Refreshor was the only item I can think of to save the defense. Usually yes lina will kill me fast but I often got the return kill cuz of the ult.
                                                                                                Also the kaya yasha is a pretty good item. Without that yasha plus ms you cant hit ur 550 ms with skeleton walk due to how ms works now.

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                                                                                                Feachairu

                                                                                                  idk i made midas on some mid like phoenix mid if i win the lane too much since there's not much item available

                                                                                                  what about clinkz with 4 wb+solar crest+pt?

                                                                                                  Peekaboo

                                                                                                    @feachariu, I think that build is viable, This is the 'closest' i got to building that build, I believe i went 3 wraith, treads, medalion, Dlance, Crest, Pike. - https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4304298890

                                                                                                    My reasoning for going Dlance was because i was our main towerpush asside from rhasta wards untill my Dusa came online. I then picked up a solar crest at 22mins for my medusa's Manta timing (21mins) - We took roshan (24mins) and ended the game.

                                                                                                    I think solar crest is good if you aren't the 'true' carry and your other core hits a power spike.

                                                                                                    refering to midas, I rarely buy it however the times that i did buy it was because of the following reasons. I Have bought midas 4x so far
                                                                                                    -
                                                                                                    game, 1 I had a jungle Wraithking with a midas, who has notoriously hit creeps (went double midas lone druid, didn't defend towers and hat 500 cs while our throne died) So i knew that i needed something to keep myself in the game. (Last time he went double midas, i went a fighting build 7-1 from laning phase and got out scaled because my team didn't want to fight).. IF he was actively offlaning, then i would have skipped it

                                                                                                    Game, 2 I was against a counter pick kunnka, an Antimage and a Top networth windrunner - With 2 very active supports spamming sentries. With the amount of farm i had (top on my team, 1k behind thier 3 cores) i Couldnt think of a singular item for 2k gold that would allow me to do more, We couldn't fight them, I couldnt catch an antimage, i couldnt catch a windrunner and they were deathballing with a Kunkka while we were clocked by an antimage. My only hope was for them to missplay and for me to get to some big ticket items to contest the later stages of the game.

                                                                                                    Game 3, I got tiny airlines'd mid - dual lane clinkz is horrendously starved for levels and in the offlane i managed an 8min midas, I was doing well for farm however i was starved for levels- The rest of the game was over by 10mins so i just bought meme items and dived fountain etc.

                                                                                                    Game 4, I had a Techies+ Antimage on my team, Alongside a tidehunter (big downtime on his ulti, and buying solarcrest which means i didn't have to buy the medalion) - I felt as if there wasn't an item i could buy that'd alow me to fight into a DK furion deathball and thought that if i could survive the deathball with techies mines and stall- we could Clock them and out scale them.

                                                                                                    All 4 examples i think midas was justified, Midas is still a rare pickup, however i wouldn't just say 'Hey midas is a bad item' or 'hey midas is a great item' - Make sure it fits the game you were playing.

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                                                                                                    Feachairu

                                                                                                      that's a good description,thanks