Naga Siren's base damage at level one used to be the same as her base damage at level 6, when this nerf came she became a support
Support Gyro was never not apart of the Meta, the reason you pick him for a support role is because like Naga he can transfer into the hard carry role.
Spirit Breaker as anything other than a support or carry seems silly as after level 16 someone like PA, PL or even Naga and Gyro scale past him and you're suddenly playing an RNG game to get kills, making him a core hero in a line-up is a recipe for disaster.
> These teams constantly practice [...] new strategies.
Wrong. They practice what they know is working. Why bother investing time in uncertainty? Only a few teams actually try new things. Specifically, a few DRAFTERS do, rest just copy what they see, practice it, and execute it as best as they can (sometimes flawlessly, Alliance comes to mind).
With how the current meta works DP could of course fit in...
Poor attack animation aside, she has the ability to control the lane and push very fast, should these current meta mids with high mobility/gank potential leave mid you can guarantee your tower will be gone.
With anything new in dota people are scared to try things out, Last year I was laughed at for suggesting visage would become the premier support because of his ridiculous early game, I was laughed and told OD would never be a competitive pick because he's to easy to counter.
DP has the potential to be in the meta to counter heavy gank orientated mids and assuming she cs's well in mid, DP can get out of control very fast.
@op, like u said dp is very item dependent, what if dp loses her laning stage? how will u make a comeback? its not an sf that can farm a shadow blade in 5 minutes. She's also not a carry but requires a lot of farm, if u do get a lot of items, then it means ur taking farm from ur carry...
No stuns, if u survive her first nuke and 2 right clicks, u can tp away (very bloodseeker-like)...
Her ultimate is a long damage over time spell, she kind of works like necrolyte/bristleback that heals/dmg over long periods of time. Most teams don't like that, they want to burst down a target as soon as possible to prevent any type of counter initiation or escape (tp support, naga ulti, vs swap, force staff, black hole, blah blah blah)
A long time ago in dota 1, dp and necro was actually popular but due to the huge nerfs on vanguard/bloodstone/heart, it is just not viable anymore.
I don't know, they're playing a game where the outcome is pretty uncertain, why send Dendi mid as LD or IO? Why do an aggressive tri-lane with IO/Riki/Naga and get 15 kills in less than 15 minutes.
What would DP do mid against a TA or Puck?
Saying they don't try new things in practice is such an out of touch statement.
As one of the better DP Players out there, and someone that plays competitively, or at least used to, here is why:
1. She doesn't have a lane. Unless it's possible for her to solo safelane. She's an incredibly easy to kill hero as a mid, just slightly harder than Sniper and SF. The most common mids right now, Bat, Puck, OD, and QoP, she really struggles against. She can go about even with Puck but she's losing to each of the other 3, and in a big way. She can't really rune contrl against these other heroes without just guessing the rune better.
2. She needs items that she just won't be able to farm. She needs hp, she needs move speed, where is this farm found, as a mid lane? I guess, but good luck having the standard pub mid lane. If you're able to get 40 cs against a better mid it's a big victory.
3. While the lack of disable doesn't really matter, the fact that her best spell, silence, is easily countered by BKB, does. For this reason heroes that are less likely to get BKB, like Lifestealer and Weaver, are really good matchups for DP, but heroes that are probably going to get it really early on are matchup issues.
4. While exorcism is mighty powerful, DP isn't really too powerful without it, and it makes a very clear when to push / defend time like few other ults.
On the other hand, I could see it in certain lineups. She is very very string against Naix, and combos well with recent additions ET and Medusa. She can't really do much super late except survive, but she's about as strong a hero there is in the mid to early late game. Oh, and her attack animation is fine...not to be that guy but if you don't get her animation just get better. It's exceedingly easy to hit with her.
dp cant play a support cuz she has no slow no stun and so easy to kill cuz she has no escape mekanesm
her only role is mid and even tho she is a really bad ganker and so easy to get ganked ... cuz a ganker at least need a stun or an intiation or a huge nuke which she dosent have
she is just a pusher non helping team hero otherwise the silence and spamming magical 300 every now and then which isnt helful actually
place ur self in a carry form that have a dp in team , she will force a fast push to the 3 lanes or otherwise she is usless
that would leave the carry unprotected in farming and weak
so no its not that much of a good team fights hero
Btw, all the stuff you said was already discussed and rebutted in the above posts. After reading all the cons and pros that people brought up, I'm confident DP is viable when the situation calls for it. Not a top pick/ban but a strong situational pick especially against weaver/naix.
Naga Siren's base damage at level one used to be the same as her base damage at level 6, when this nerf came she became a support
Support Gyro was never not apart of the Meta, the reason you pick him for a support role is because like Naga he can transfer into the hard carry role.
Spirit Breaker as anything other than a support or carry seems silly as after level 16 someone like PA, PL or even Naga and Gyro scale past him and you're suddenly playing an RNG game to get kills, making him a core hero in a line-up is a recipe for disaster.
> These teams constantly practice [...] new strategies.
Wrong. They practice what they know is working. Why bother investing time in uncertainty? Only a few teams actually try new things. Specifically, a few DRAFTERS do, rest just copy what they see, practice it, and execute it as best as they can (sometimes flawlessly, Alliance comes to mind).
With how the current meta works DP could of course fit in...
Poor attack animation aside, she has the ability to control the lane and push very fast, should these current meta mids with high mobility/gank potential leave mid you can guarantee your tower will be gone.
With anything new in dota people are scared to try things out, Last year I was laughed at for suggesting visage would become the premier support because of his ridiculous early game, I was laughed and told OD would never be a competitive pick because he's to easy to counter.
DP has the potential to be in the meta to counter heavy gank orientated mids and assuming she cs's well in mid, DP can get out of control very fast.
@op, like u said dp is very item dependent, what if dp loses her laning stage? how will u make a comeback? its not an sf that can farm a shadow blade in 5 minutes. She's also not a carry but requires a lot of farm, if u do get a lot of items, then it means ur taking farm from ur carry...
No stuns, if u survive her first nuke and 2 right clicks, u can tp away (very bloodseeker-like)...
Her ultimate is a long damage over time spell, she kind of works like necrolyte/bristleback that heals/dmg over long periods of time. Most teams don't like that, they want to burst down a target as soon as possible to prevent any type of counter initiation or escape (tp support, naga ulti, vs swap, force staff, black hole, blah blah blah)
A long time ago in dota 1, dp and necro was actually popular but due to the huge nerfs on vanguard/bloodstone/heart, it is just not viable anymore.
>why bother investing time in uncertainty
I don't know, they're playing a game where the outcome is pretty uncertain, why send Dendi mid as LD or IO? Why do an aggressive tri-lane with IO/Riki/Naga and get 15 kills in less than 15 minutes.
What would DP do mid against a TA or Puck?
Saying they don't try new things in practice is such an out of touch statement.
As one of the better DP Players out there, and someone that plays competitively, or at least used to, here is why:
1. She doesn't have a lane. Unless it's possible for her to solo safelane. She's an incredibly easy to kill hero as a mid, just slightly harder than Sniper and SF. The most common mids right now, Bat, Puck, OD, and QoP, she really struggles against. She can go about even with Puck but she's losing to each of the other 3, and in a big way. She can't really rune contrl against these other heroes without just guessing the rune better.
2. She needs items that she just won't be able to farm. She needs hp, she needs move speed, where is this farm found, as a mid lane? I guess, but good luck having the standard pub mid lane. If you're able to get 40 cs against a better mid it's a big victory.
3. While the lack of disable doesn't really matter, the fact that her best spell, silence, is easily countered by BKB, does. For this reason heroes that are less likely to get BKB, like Lifestealer and Weaver, are really good matchups for DP, but heroes that are probably going to get it really early on are matchup issues.
4. While exorcism is mighty powerful, DP isn't really too powerful without it, and it makes a very clear when to push / defend time like few other ults.
On the other hand, I could see it in certain lineups. She is very very string against Naix, and combos well with recent additions ET and Medusa. She can't really do much super late except survive, but she's about as strong a hero there is in the mid to early late game. Oh, and her attack animation is fine...not to be that guy but if you don't get her animation just get better. It's exceedingly easy to hit with her.
dp cant play a support cuz she has no slow no stun and so easy to kill cuz she has no escape mekanesm
her only role is mid and even tho she is a really bad ganker and so easy to get ganked ... cuz a ganker at least need a stun or an intiation or a huge nuke which she dosent have
she is just a pusher non helping team hero otherwise the silence and spamming magical 300 every now and then which isnt helful actually
place ur self in a carry form that have a dp in team , she will force a fast push to the 3 lanes or otherwise she is usless
that would leave the carry unprotected in farming and weak
so no its not that much of a good team fights hero
Why'd you bump a 5 day old thread?
Btw, all the stuff you said was already discussed and rebutted in the above posts. After reading all the cons and pros that people brought up, I'm confident DP is viable when the situation calls for it. Not a top pick/ban but a strong situational pick especially against weaver/naix.