General DiscussionThinking about a good team for Captain Mode

The weak points basically say its impossible.

So all your lanes are weak.

What?

If you're against a decent drafter, they will definitely go aggressive against you. You will lose on all lanes and thus you will go into that major first team fight you mentioned, when you're behind. It'll work if they just let you farm like nobody's business but no it won't work on a higher skill level.

Wombo combos are also weak against split pushing and ganking and powerful turtling. They won't group up for you to decimate them if they have brains.

No Darkseer? Trash lineup.

You are true on some points :

"So all your lanes are weak." Yes all lane are weak until lvl 6... but at the lvl 6 you have a really good potencial to kill.

"If you're against a decent drafter, they will definitely go aggressive against you. You will lose on all lanes and thus you will go into that major first team fight you mentioned, when you're behind." Yes i'm behind in stuff/lvl... not in spell. The first team fight often determinate the rest of the game. But with that team, you can win it easy (no bkb or shadow blade yet).
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And i'm not agree with you for :

"It'll work if they just let you farm like nobody's business but no it won't work on a higher skill level." The early farm is really important that's sure, but the real problem with my team is to loose the tower in early. If you don't loose it that's ok for you cause Spectre will have the opportunity to farm after next to the tower.

"Wombo combos are also weak against split pushing" false... if they 1//4 push the 1 is dead (zeus and spectre ulti)
"ganking" this composition is anti-ganking "gogs" "ice path" "thundergod's" "Caotic offerring" etc... you must be able to disable all the team to win that kind of gank.
"powerful turtling" This composition is also anti-turtling... a lot of spell make the other team leave her tower (to much AOE, too much long range spell for them).

I think the real problem for that team, is bkb and magic resist... cause zeus, jakiro and warlock will do nothing. If you let the ennemy farm 2 Bkb at the 15' or 20' you are dead.

You should make sure to ban Outworld Devourer. He would destroy Zeus so fucking easy. And against a good aggressive tri lane(Venge, Naix, CM or whatever) you will instantly lose. Naix will outfarm your Spectre and with 2 Stuns and 2 Slows you will lose the lane. In fights you can do nearly nothing against a Naix with Rage on. Against Clockwerk you should take another good solo laner like DS or LD.

And your Warlock gets fucked easily when the oppenents buy a Diffusal Blade.

I was thinking about this strat as well. I will add you we can play this. But I don't think we should try it in cap mode. AP first. I bet it will win 80%+ of games even vs stacks. perhaps.

Let me be more detailed;

You are totally underestimating the consequences of having weak lanes. Spectre and Warlock provide little to no CC in the beginning. They also have very damage output. This is fatal in a tri vs tri. THD will not be enough to protect your tri. It'll work out this way; you go on the defensive and take almost no farm and have plenty of creeps denied or you try to go against them and die.

Level 6? You won't reach level 6. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the heroes in a tri to reach level 6 especially with no kills? You'll be sitting ducks. If you pull creeps, your carry will be dived. If you don't pull, you're leveling as fast as an ant.

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Zeus is a weak mid. Not much rune control and his last hit sucks. He needs to spam arc to keep up with harm and harass but he won't have the manapool for that. He would have to waste plenty of gold of clarities or try to guess where rune will spawn with bottle. Popular mids crap on him; OD and TA would rape his butt. Puck and QoP would outlast him and get all the runes which they can gank with. This means your already weak lanes are vulnerable to gangs.

Zeus would be a sitting duck. TP to help btm? Good job wasting gold and time because your tri is too weak to gang. TP for counter diving? You would lack mana if you decided to fight for CS in mid (unless you gave enemy mid FF) and even if you had mana, the TP channeling time would be too long to save whichever hero that got dived, meaning you can only attempt to cleanup. Sadly, with practically no dmg dealers in your tri, their heroes are unlikely to be very low on hp.

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Clock is your only decent lane, because he'll run against another solo. If you're fortunate, they picked a melee hero (which is unlikely) for the solo and clock MIGHT win the lane. If they picked a ranged hero... then good luck. If both players are of equal skill, the clock will never be able to close in for a kill. He'll be vulnerable to harass if he fights for CS meaning he can get killed/waste tons of money on regen items.

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Lets discuss various other things;

'"Wombo combos are also weak against split pushing' false... if they 1//4 push the 1 is dead (zeus and spectre ulti)"

Split pushers excel at not getting killed. Furion, PL, Timbersaw, Weaver and the list goes on. A spectre and a zeus ulti won't be enough. In otherwords you need to dedicate more allies for a chance to kill the split pusher. You have a clock for hunting split pushes but heres the thing, the split pushing hero will probably be fat thanks to a good laning phase. Your clock on the otherhand, will probably be poor and underfarmed. Meaning its absolutely necessary you need allies together to stop a split push. This basically is the intention of split pushing because you won't be able to defend both lanes.

"ganking" this composition is anti-ganking "gogs" "ice path" "thundergod's" "Caotic offerring" etc... you must be able to disable all the team to win that kind of gank.

So, you're playing 5-man doto? Are you implying you will never split off and have heroes alone? You will be crippled from early game, meaning 1-on-1 you will always lose if you fight back. So this means excluding clock and spec, the rest of your heroes will die easily from ganks. No escape skills and you're behind on farm. If you constantly have to stick to prevent these ganks, then guess what? You lost map control. You're playing in fear while the opposite team have free reign over the map.

"'powerful turtling' This composition is also anti-turtling... a lot of spell make the other team leave her tower (to much AOE, too much long range spell for them)."

Like what? Your only spell to do this is a... a warlock ulti. The rest can't initiate. Not even clock, that dudes asking to die if he flies in with ulti against a fatter team. This is a huge gamble mind you. You're fighting a fatter team who has tower support. A KoTL or strong turtle hero will clear your creep waves putting your entire team will be vulnerable to tower fire. If you succeed? Well good you got a tower. If you don't? Its easy GG because you'll be even further behind. Remember, you'll probably be behind in levels and items.

"I think the real problem for that team, is bkb and magic resist... cause zeus, jakiro and warlock will do nothing. If you let the ennemy farm 2 Bkb at the 15' or 20' you are dead."

You brought up something really critical here. So your team can't farm or do anything till 6, meaning your enemy is free to farm. Do you really think it will be hard for them to farm up a BKB or 2?

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I just gave the above section to discuss your midgame. However, I'm telling you... the laning phase is enough to make you lose. You are totally underestimating how much influence it has. This lineup will never work if you're thinking of decent level gameplay.

^ Dude, this guy is just willing to run a strat in pubs based on hero win rates. You are absolutely right about many things , most of those top win rate heroes are weak , but they still hold highest win rates, because it is pub, you know. I have played tons of CM before and I know that classic pub AP heroes like sven, Spirit breaker and so on. work much better than batrider or visage, because ppl don't know how to play those heroes , they don't know how to play a trilane. They will stand in lane sharing all the XP with the carry while in fact he is uncontested and lane is free from enemies. I will not read your post completely because you probably wrote stuff I already know.
Line-up where ALL the heroes are countered by bkb, sucks.

Remember Dotabuff stats mean absolutely nothing in serious games. AM, Shadow Demon, Tinker, Wisp all have 43% or less winrate and are very powerful heroes, for example.

:P

Thats why in my first comment, I said it would work on lower level games. Against a more serious drafter and team, its weaknesses are too critical to ignore.