People who build Aghas on Luna are trolling. It is a complete waste of 4k. Her ulti is not that strong towards the end of mid game and the CD is high anyway. It is fantastic early on once you are level 7, but by 13/14 it is the glaives you need to build items for. All bounces are +165% dmg or something crazy like that right?
Items you generally have to build on Luna. Drums, HotD, BKB. I'd also say Aquila is core too now, +18 dmg along with Luna Blessing's +14/22/30/38 and you are dealing some serious punch from the 5 minute mark even. You can get RoA before boots really as you have the speed to do so.
Luna's squishy-ness does make her kinda dull at times. I've considered maybe even going heavy on int early-mid game and abusing her Q which has crazy range and CD. She definitely is completely OP early on if you can satisfy her mana needs. I've considered Euls for that extra move speed, or maybe just perseverance, but it doesn't increase her pool size though. I dunno, seems like there are alternatives if you have a team to help you. If you can snowball a few early kills with very little engagement risk you can get back on that hard carry build with a weakened opponent.
One important thing to understand about luna is that lifesteal is particularly bad for luna. Her super high dps comes from bounces so only a tiny fraction counts for lifesteal.
You do not need helm of the dominator to jungle with luna or to kill ancient stacks... although if your supports fail to stack it can allow you to do it yourself. But the lifesteal gives only about 5% of luna's dps as healing; its tiny. If you choose to put that gold into a yasha your progression to luna's most important core item is faster. Luna can jungle quickly while taking nearly zero dmg if you just position correctly and kite the creeps.
Manta style is better on Luna than all other carries that might want to get it. Because of glaives, when you pop manta you instantly jump to about 4.5X dmg. It is incredible... like a PA that crits on every attack instead of 15%. Whatever else you do for luna get manta and get it ASAP.
Luna often needs a bkb. But getting it after manta is much better if you can avoid having bkb long enough. BkB is an item for fighting. If you don't really want to man-fight yet... then just stay back and go into fights about 2 or 3 seconds later. Stuns will already be cast. Luna should not be attacking first. Even if you have bkb, try to save it. If you can use an 8,9,10 second bkb charge on a fully farmed luna you will win the game killing their entire team and their base. But if your bkb is down nearer to 4 seconds... well you may need a new one.
Luna makes excellent use of Divine Rapier. Two DRs are even better. However late the game goes Luna can go bigger with DRs.
Luna can reach a point where she can kill T3 and rax during bkb with just manta, bfly, Divine. Unless you are against something like Engima or Faceless void its an unstoppable move. Anyone who walks close will die to glaives as you kill the rax. If you build manta+ blfy+ DR.... get the DR whole immediately after winning a teamfight and walk directly into the base. Kill their entire base before they respawn.
Uhm, allow me to join the conversation. Luna is a great hero and I find her quite amusing and good throughout the early and mid game and she could be quite an annoying hero if given the space to farm. But why so many of you think she's the best carry out there? (based on the top 3 topics posted by another member)
In my opinion she could by far not be a match for carries from the rank of Spectre, Morph and Void into the late game?
Because she can get 6 slotted faster than any other carry thanks to her brilliant flash farming ability from early on. Yes 1 vs 1 against void she will lose, or infact many carries. In a team fight though her glaives are brutal and have fantastic range, and 6 slotted vs a base the entire thing is gone in a few seconds.
That's true, yes, but she can also be destroyed in a team fight fairly easily. A second late BKB and just a Nyx can nuke the crap out of her. A very good carry - yes, but I'm far from the thought that she's top carry atm.
Early game it is all about the beams. Later you don't even bother much and you just right click as the beams have less effect due to BKB or Blademail as mentioned.
HoD / satanic bad on luna....? All these pro players are doing it wrong!
In all seriousness, it seems you prefer drums into manta, which is probably viable, but certainly not what most top players will do. The lifesteal really isn't as ineffective as you make it out to be, and HoD has solid stats that she needs.
Aquila - Treads - Helm - Yasha - BKB - Manta - Some other Luna item.
I have built Aghas' on Luna a few times and each time just don't feel like it helps her all that much later on. Early it does provide a little extra into stats which is something Luna lacks early, and it does toss the extra beam or two making her ult better in team fights (this is teamfight vs solo ulting someone)
@Soultrap: It only triples the damage on a single target, if you catch a single opponent alone. In this case you are deciding to use your ulti on one person who is alone? You need to describe this scenario to me, where you + enemy alone, no creep, nothing else those beams can hit. And if you have farmed Aghas they can easily have farmed a BKB too. They pop that, your 3600 dmg beams do nothing. Also, you have never played Luna.
@djgandy
Scenario? End of teamfight, all BKBs on cooldown, creeps fell to AOE splashes, enemy carry buys back and jumps on you. It happens.
But I got your point. I just like to build one or two tanky items on a carry. AgS gives you 440 hp, if I'm not miscalculated. Good to have even if improvement to ultimate is a bit situational.
P.S. I like to build Bloodstone on Medusa, btw. <3
Era had Skadi on Luna
great decision by him, he needed extra hp, if he went straight Satanic, Alliance had enough burst and lockdown, he wouldn't be able to use the satanic active.
Luna is late game, mid game, early sometimes. She's all about positioning. Her nuke has insane range so combined with a disabler support they can score early kills. And her aura gives her a ton of early dmg makes last hitting so easy. Mid game her ult rules until other team gets a bunch of bkbs or has hp to withstand it. Late game those manta illusions plus glaives do more dmg than any other carry except possibly gyro, medusa and terrorblade. Lycan also has equal push but not the same ability to hit the entire enemy team obviously.
Skipping HoD and going straight for manta, I'll have to try it, but her range isn't that good, I don't see how you clear the jungle that easily without any healing.
As far as stacking, I have trouble here. If I stack it past three usually the enemy team is pushing and kills them before I get to them. If I have to rush into my 3-4 stack at say lvl 12 I usually can't kill them all. What's the ideal number of stacks before you kill em?
@Hatsune This is where BKB after sceptre comes into play.
Sauce for previously mentioned match cause forgot to post http://dotabuff.com/matches/480707205
People who build Aghas on Luna are trolling. It is a complete waste of 4k. Her ulti is not that strong towards the end of mid game and the CD is high anyway. It is fantastic early on once you are level 7, but by 13/14 it is the glaives you need to build items for. All bounces are +165% dmg or something crazy like that right?
Items you generally have to build on Luna. Drums, HotD, BKB. I'd also say Aquila is core too now, +18 dmg along with Luna Blessing's +14/22/30/38 and you are dealing some serious punch from the 5 minute mark even. You can get RoA before boots really as you have the speed to do so.
Luna's squishy-ness does make her kinda dull at times. I've considered maybe even going heavy on int early-mid game and abusing her Q which has crazy range and CD. She definitely is completely OP early on if you can satisfy her mana needs. I've considered Euls for that extra move speed, or maybe just perseverance, but it doesn't increase her pool size though. I dunno, seems like there are alternatives if you have a team to help you. If you can snowball a few early kills with very little engagement risk you can get back on that hard carry build with a weakened opponent.
@OA*_Havoc Badger: CM's mana aura at play there eh. I also like KotL + Luna for an aggressive early push lane.
One important thing to understand about luna is that lifesteal is particularly bad for luna. Her super high dps comes from bounces so only a tiny fraction counts for lifesteal.
You do not need helm of the dominator to jungle with luna or to kill ancient stacks... although if your supports fail to stack it can allow you to do it yourself. But the lifesteal gives only about 5% of luna's dps as healing; its tiny. If you choose to put that gold into a yasha your progression to luna's most important core item is faster. Luna can jungle quickly while taking nearly zero dmg if you just position correctly and kite the creeps.
Manta style is better on Luna than all other carries that might want to get it. Because of glaives, when you pop manta you instantly jump to about 4.5X dmg. It is incredible... like a PA that crits on every attack instead of 15%. Whatever else you do for luna get manta and get it ASAP.
Luna often needs a bkb. But getting it after manta is much better if you can avoid having bkb long enough. BkB is an item for fighting. If you don't really want to man-fight yet... then just stay back and go into fights about 2 or 3 seconds later. Stuns will already be cast. Luna should not be attacking first. Even if you have bkb, try to save it. If you can use an 8,9,10 second bkb charge on a fully farmed luna you will win the game killing their entire team and their base. But if your bkb is down nearer to 4 seconds... well you may need a new one.
Luna makes excellent use of Divine Rapier. Two DRs are even better. However late the game goes Luna can go bigger with DRs.
Luna can reach a point where she can kill T3 and rax during bkb with just manta, bfly, Divine. Unless you are against something like Engima or Faceless void its an unstoppable move. Anyone who walks close will die to glaives as you kill the rax. If you build manta+ blfy+ DR.... get the DR whole immediately after winning a teamfight and walk directly into the base. Kill their entire base before they respawn.
Uhm, allow me to join the conversation. Luna is a great hero and I find her quite amusing and good throughout the early and mid game and she could be quite an annoying hero if given the space to farm. But why so many of you think she's the best carry out there? (based on the top 3 topics posted by another member)
In my opinion she could by far not be a match for carries from the rank of Spectre, Morph and Void into the late game?
Because she can get 6 slotted faster than any other carry thanks to her brilliant flash farming ability from early on. Yes 1 vs 1 against void she will lose, or infact many carries. In a team fight though her glaives are brutal and have fantastic range, and 6 slotted vs a base the entire thing is gone in a few seconds.
That's true, yes, but she can also be destroyed in a team fight fairly easily. A second late BKB and just a Nyx can nuke the crap out of her. A very good carry - yes, but I'm far from the thought that she's top carry atm.
Luna is pretty average with imba early ult most heroes gets down on their knees unless you have blademail, shell go down instead of u
It's so fun to rax as Luna, watching the glaives melt structures never gets boring. One of her bigger points imo.
Early game it is all about the beams. Later you don't even bother much and you just right click as the beams have less effect due to BKB or Blademail as mentioned.
@Relentless
HoD / satanic bad on luna....? All these pro players are doing it wrong!
In all seriousness, it seems you prefer drums into manta, which is probably viable, but certainly not what most top players will do. The lifesteal really isn't as ineffective as you make it out to be, and HoD has solid stats that she needs.
Aghanim's Scepter triples the damage from Luna's ult. All who say that AgS is bad on Luna are trolling.
Aghanim's on Luna is a bad item, she deals more damage with right clicks as the game goes on. With 4k you can buy a full BKB.
Off lane build:
Stick - Aquila - Treads - Drums - Yasha - Normal Carry item progression
Safe Lane build:
Aquila - Treads - Helm - Yasha - BKB - Manta - Some other Luna item.
I have built Aghas' on Luna a few times and each time just don't feel like it helps her all that much later on. Early it does provide a little extra into stats which is something Luna lacks early, and it does toss the extra beam or two making her ult better in team fights (this is teamfight vs solo ulting someone)
@Soultrap: It only triples the damage on a single target, if you catch a single opponent alone. In this case you are deciding to use your ulti on one person who is alone? You need to describe this scenario to me, where you + enemy alone, no creep, nothing else those beams can hit. And if you have farmed Aghas they can easily have farmed a BKB too. They pop that, your 3600 dmg beams do nothing. Also, you have never played Luna.
@ havoc badger
I tried luna offlane once recently (by offlane i mean solo offlane). It went very badly. I can see doing dual offlane.
@djgandy
Scenario? End of teamfight, all BKBs on cooldown, creeps fell to AOE splashes, enemy carry buys back and jumps on you. It happens.
But I got your point. I just like to build one or two tanky items on a carry. AgS gives you 440 hp, if I'm not miscalculated. Good to have even if improvement to ultimate is a bit situational.
P.S. I like to build Bloodstone on Medusa, btw. <3
anyone got top 10 luna players ? ? im to broke to afford premium dotabuff :s
I highly doubt you are even top 50 JrL
dunno, mby u misunderstood the question or something.
I don't think I did.
Im positive that you did ^^ but mby one of us are delusional or learnt how to read from different places, who knows :s
Who is Melody-chan?
Melody -> http://dotabuff.com/players/120827563
His thread -> http://dotabuff.com/topics/2014-02-14-hi-welcome-to-dotabuff-how-to-foruman-unofficial-melody-guide
Fnatic x Alliance at the XMG CD Invitational
http://dotabuff.com/matches/527928238
Era had Skadi on Luna
great decision by him, he needed extra hp, if he went straight Satanic, Alliance had enough burst and lockdown, he wouldn't be able to use the satanic active.
that ticket pisses me off. I want to get it but 10 bucks is ridiculous. and the schedule... its one game every 2 days.
@ sat. I guess skadi has 250 more hp than satanic, but it doesn't have as much armor.
The armor comes from the HotD.
25 agility = 3,57 armor. Only 1,43 less armor than Satanic.
i didnt even look to see if he still had HoD.
i am fairly sure they stack so cool
Imo best carry in the game but depends on her team
You need your team to do stuff
Luna is late game, mid game, early sometimes. She's all about positioning. Her nuke has insane range so combined with a disabler support they can score early kills. And her aura gives her a ton of early dmg makes last hitting so easy. Mid game her ult rules until other team gets a bunch of bkbs or has hp to withstand it. Late game those manta illusions plus glaives do more dmg than any other carry except possibly gyro, medusa and terrorblade. Lycan also has equal push but not the same ability to hit the entire enemy team obviously.
Skipping HoD and going straight for manta, I'll have to try it, but her range isn't that good, I don't see how you clear the jungle that easily without any healing.
As far as stacking, I have trouble here. If I stack it past three usually the enemy team is pushing and kills them before I get to them. If I have to rush into my 3-4 stack at say lvl 12 I usually can't kill them all. What's the ideal number of stacks before you kill em?