[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vlJcEir.jpg[/IMG]
My smurf is actually sub 50% win rate, I think it's cuz smurf protection overshot me or something so I was losing a bunch of games at 5k in unranked, but w/e
nice with 5k!
i have under 50%winrate but look at this game http://dotabuff.com/matches/731083415 clearly winrate means nothing ^^
So how exactly does the system figure your mmr when you're smurfing? I mean i have a smurf acc but some guy told me to let it be because it will have almost the same rating as my main. Even though i have like 60% wr.
Its about who you win against and the early 1-10 games are the most important. The unranked pool of high % winners is very small and i allways endup with the same people in my games. Winrate means very little tho its more about who you win against same as in Ranked games but in ranked games you can gain or lose way less.
Thanks! :D
I also noticed something funny, the games where I performed the best are all in the 5k bracket.
I lost my first ranked calibration match (probably 4.5k MMR at the time) and my kunkka mid had something like a 25 min phase/drum/ring of health. Ugh.
Literally in games where everyone on my team was 4k (I added a guy to find out their MMRs, there were a few games where everyone was 4100-4700) they all fed in their lanes and sucked shit.
4k trashes are disgusting
these retards are the reason it took me so long to finally calibrate at 5k, don't let ANYONE tell u it's not ur fault. i have concrete evidence right here. if u are outperforming ur teammates at 4500-5000 (which is what i did on my main account, not this one, but another one, it's currently sitting at 4700) then there's a good chance u belong at low 5k MMR, it's just the skill level fluctuates too wildly and sometimes u just end up with the 2 monkeys who are uncarriable because one of them randoms sniper and the other randoms a mid hero he never plays.
literally there is NO other explanation other than the fact that the deviation of skill level is too great at 4k.
in one game you'll get someone who randoms sniper and feeds all game long, the next you'll get 2 supports who rotate mid and secure all 3 lanes for easy victory. this is why mmr boosters almost always go mid, cuz they know it's the only way to secure a win if all ur other lanes end up losing
thankfully this randomness settles down a bit after 5k but i don't really care, i'm done playing solo q cuz it's awful as fuck and i don't like having to deal with so much autism, i'll probably just play 5-10 games every week with friends cuz i'm not in the mood to try and grind to 5500+. I was thinking I could calibrate to 5000-5100 but somehow got 5300 lol.
Yeah I'm aware of it, but the general dota community fails to understand.
It's like if you tell your nerdy friends that SAT scores/which prestigious college you go to ultimately doesn't matter very much, but ofc they'll insist otherwise cuz the size of their dicks is at stake.
Dat winrate though.
Keep playing and drop down to your normal MMR, or never touch the account again in which case your mmr is meaningless anyway.
Gratz i guess?
You mean keep playing and increase the MMR on the account?
Thanks :D
What Concede said, if you actually think you belong at the level you smurfed to then keep playing..
Well done, dude. Ignore trash Concede and others like him (they are jealous) and move on. Also if you choose the right times, days and servers to play on you will enjoy very pleasing dota 2. Congratulations, again. ;D
Incoming Sampson "you're cheating the system and ruining games for others" message detected.
Curious questions...
> What was your "main" accounts MMR?
> Obviously not wins/losses so what does the system look for?
> What heroes did you play and how? Greedy, KDA Whores etc?
> How many games till you could do ranked?
Edit: Found the account which answers a few things http://dotabuff.com/players/155519734
@Havoc
he has no main, he has like 3-4 accounts he hops between with around 4.5k-4.6k average solo rating (i gave up recognizing him on my friend list)
system looks at hero performance relative to the average performance for that hero and uses that as a guide for your rating when your uncertainty is high
therefore if you're half decent with heroes like zeus and tinker you can easily have alot of hero damage even on losing games, which jacks the system in your favour.
There are players that 4/5 games are the best in their team, but still get 50% win rate...In that case you belong in a higher mmr...
but you just can't carry games. It's not cuz you can't carry games, you're worse than others.
Would take 100 straight losses to drop to 2.8 k (just an easy example, not a guess to actual skill level), and with smurfers on the other team and really good players on your own team you're still going to win games. I'm not sure the mmr of these smurfs really drops as quickly as you think it does, Concede. In fact, its totally possible that its the quickest way of improving your own gameplay, by playing with good players on your team, so how is that bad?
chat is so poisonously angry (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ
Can't we just applaud him and get over it?
I mean if hes good he deserves it, if hes bad we can laugh as he drops
lol so many rage comment.
Most people think and saying he'll have 100losing streak and will go down to his real mmr
but I don't think so. I bet he'll stay at 5k mmr unlike what people think.
you know there is very little skill difference from 4.5k + upward? unless it's composed of team/party
(although there maybe huge difference in player's available skill pool)
people know how to play and know what they are doing. Not like higher mmr player have one more finger to play.
It'll take a lot of time (probably months) to go down once he gets into certain mmr bracket even his actual mmr is lower.
Ranked game is always filled with 4 others who are at that mmr bracket impacting the gameplay.
To have losing streak, you'd have to have member/s who is performing 'wayyyy lower' than their mmr bracket to drag other 4 down.
only single role that can impact game so much is going solo midlane or picking lone carry for their team.
more so in the higher bracket than in the lower bracket because teams will usually sacrifice more for the mid/carry
(in this case if you don't belong at that mmr your mmr will go down real fast)
Hell, even if he gets losing streak I would bet he'll learn much from 5k mmr losing match than wining match from 3/4k.
if it takes many games for him to go lower than 5k, he'll eventually learn how to play like 5k by playing with 5k folks.
you see, you can't imitate bad plays to get good but you can learn fast if you imitate very good play to get good
@mohouzeg
if you are the most skilled player in the game you should be able to win more than you lose, which means you'll get your mmr higher
if you are slightly better than most of the players you met than perhaps you are 150-300 MMR away from where you actually belong; but thats not a big deal and you'll eventually get there
but if you are a fucking 5k+ player you should be able to carry atleast 65% of your games, which will greatly increase your mmr anyways, thats what juice/swiftending did. he was a 6k and could carry most of games (78%) at the 5k rate.
its probably the same for him (as a 6k) to stomp 4.8~5k players than it is for a 3k to stomp the first game on a smurf account... the skill difference is so big that doesnt matter how bad your teammates are you will end up mostly carrying them
so the "elo hell" may exist when you are slightly better (100-150 MMR) from where you are at, so from time to time you may get stuck at your current rating because you aren't good enough to carry, but then again there is not skill different inbetween 100 MMR. its like 4 games...
what i see as "elo hell" (i dont think that exists but people usually think thats an ello hell) its when ur 3k and its fucking hard to get better because everyone in the game suck (including you) and its fucking hard to put into practice what you know in theory. even if you watch streams a lot and you can really understand what they're doing, when it comes down to practice you'll see yourself stuck because you are in the stupidity boat, your supports can't really support, your carries can't really carry and you aren't good enough to get better.
i know what i'll say may get hated a lot, and i'm not encouraging anyone to do so but:
it would be more productive FOR YOU (you'll be ruining games so its not ideal for anyone else but you) to get a lets say 4k account (you are a 2.5 for example) and start playing there. You'll pretty much ruin the game for everyone in your team most of the time (unless you get carried). But you'll learn way faster because you'll see that there is a huge skill gap between you and the other players, so they are most likely able to exploit your weaknesses (whereas people on your rating fail to do), so you'll avoid doing that in future (if you keep watching your replays). i'm putting this out of my ass actually but i think you would develop as a player faster than being stuck forever in the 3k's.
again im not telling anyone to do this, this will ruin every single game you play.
So basically, if you buy a 5,6k acc and play down to e.g. original rating at 4200.
That'll take a long time and thus you're playing with so much better players for a long time, AKA:
You'll learn a lot more and your actual rating will rise much faster. Probably you'll stop at 4600 or 4700 by what you've learned.
GOOD IDEA!
currently i'm high 3k, most of the time (the 4/5 I'm talking about) I'm playing the best of my team, however, I'm still nog getting anywhere.
I think this is because of my positioning, I tend to wait and finish off others instead of initiating myself sometimes. This makes my kda higher than I deserve. But, what should I do then? Initiate and die too? I do what seems the smartest of all, waiting for someone elses mistakes, but the mistakes off MY team.
So, I made a smurf, as expected: 5-6 stomps in a row. Now, I'm in that 'very high' bracket, players play better than in the high 3k bracket. But still, I tend to do well, my kda still isn't too bad. I can actually play in the bracket without feeding.
Am I ruining games now? no
Do I deserve higher mmr on my main? I'm not sure.
@mohouzeg
You most certainly are not the best on your team.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/735303053
- Second highest deaths as the hard carry
- MoM
- 2 Wraith Bands
- Pitiful TD
http://dotabuff.com/matches/716728687
- WTF are those items
- Almost no TD
http://dotabuff.com/matches/716685359
- Low assists and no kills as SS, how???
- No TD HOW?!
http://dotabuff.com/matches/699825253
- Skadi Rush (get drums+yasha or shadowblade first in 99% of cases, you need stats and MS asap)
- No TD
- Low HD
ur fucking amazing
about to go pick tinker every game on a new account and see whats up cant stand the toxic shit of 4k
any advice for smurfing
Didn't think it would garner that much attention so I guess I could answer a few questions
@ Deadshot
Even the great Zenoth is having trouble getting 6k...how can someone like me hope :>
@ Havoc
1) This accounts' actually 4300 solo/4975 party. My other one's sitting at 4700 solo/4600 party. I do think games get a bit better after 4500 but I've never broken 4900 solo. I was calibrated between 4600-4750 on all 3 accounts I've ever played ranked on before this 4th account.
2) Obviously not wins/losses so what does the system look for?
Just your performance compared to the MMRs of other players. If their 5500 player does [x] hero dmg and has [y] k/d/a it compares your own stats across the board so it does favor "greedier" plays. (Which is, interestingly enough, how good players play in order to win - by being greedy asshats)
Wave's main account had something like 5500-5700 and he ended up at 5800/5900 in calibration back when you could afk in TMM and get level 13 without a restriction of number of games played. So I'd say it's fairly decent (chances are if you did it like I did, you could get +300-500 compared to your main, which is not THAT big of a difference in pub skill level)
Obviously if I truly don't belong at 5300 I will drop back down, but my guess is if I play my best heroes ONLY (hint hint don't support in pubs) and don't tilt (this is big, I would do shit like feed courier/suicide my hero often when the game wasn't going my way) I have a good chance of staying in between 5000-5400.
@ Sleave I'd say 99% of people belong at their proper MMRs. There IS always a very small chance a player could possibly stay within a MMR range higher, though if ur 2500 and ur asking to play at 4000, well my only advice is "Good luck." Maybe if the 2500 player acquired a 3000 account and learned from those players he could improve and not drop back down, asking for a 4000 account is like me asking for a 6000 account and the system would expect me to perform as well as Dendi/N0tail which is pretty much not going to happen.
I can do a small analysis of each match and estimate my MMR after certain ones. (Someone added me so I have a rough idea of my MMR progression after certain matches)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/743289625
First game, I'd estimate I was 4500 here. I have more last hits than my fucking safelane carry somehow. So if you somehow think I don't deserve higher than 4500 when players like these infest every other game on this account as well as on my main then yea, I have no idea what to say to convince you otherwise.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/743337668
2nd game, I was forced offlane cuz my batrider randomed and went mid. He managed to feed tinker 0-2 in 4 minutes somehow. I told him to fuck off after the 2nd death and I took mid to stop the bleeding. We actually were making a comeback till my team collectively decided to suicide for some odd reason at 30~ (my team got wiped near rax, es didn't ult for some reason, etc.) and we lost the game. Probably gained some MMR.
(FUck Sexybamboe, WHY DOES HE PLAY ON US EAST ROFL. IS SEA TOO HARD FOR HIM)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/743403723
Went mid against Monkeys (5800+). My team was actually pretty competent (I think my 5500+ player was forced onto Rubick support which is quite unfortunate) except on one end - usually taking horrible teamfights, walking into 2 marches just to pick off 1 hero.
We could've won if someone took the leadership role and helped the team make intelligent decisions - sadly that player is not me.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/743880634
Not much to say here - people raped their lanes. I didn't get a ward rune from lightknight6969 (yes, this is the guy who posts here sometimes bragging about his win against pros) so I got a bit annoyed. Ended up buying the obs myself but I can't complain about this one, the team did pretty well.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/743982281
I think I helped gank the other lanes a lot, most likely cuz I had much better rune control this game (usually I'm sitting mid trying to get more exp/farm cuz the runes are taken by other team/the other team's mid while my supports are jacking off to shitty porn in their lanes, doing NOTHING). Pretty one-sided. The sand king added me after. I'm pretty sure this is the game that shot me to 5000-5100. The sand king added me after and he was 4700~.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/744325789
I end up solo queuing into the same game as the sand king. All lanes are lost (I got arrowed once stupidly mid and died, which I took responsibility for; top lane fed phoenix like 3 times, Timbersaw didn't do anything bot for some reason cuz he's 4100 going up against a 5800 MMR void).
http://www.dota2.com/leaderboards#americas (Xeno'Kikz was the Void - 5.8k MMR)
I asked for MMR endscreen scores and calculated it - during this game I was 5100~.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/744395109
Uh, not much to say. I think our picks were pretty dumb cuz nobody's capable of absorbing damage (no tanks) against their lineup.
One thing to note is my kill participation - in many of the losing games I'm in over 70% of the total kills of the team, and I think the system looks for that as well. If ur just afking in base, you're going to lose MMR during calibration.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/744469869
Complete and utter stomp. Probably launched me to 5200-5300. I actually analyzed my own gameplay afterwards and I can definitely say I am misclicking sometimes in team fights/being inefficient with my items. I think this is one of those games where I actually had to carry my own weight and not rely on teammates being good to win. (My team was flaming the PA)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/744583651
The tinker is 5500+, I think the rest of my team was 4k. He instapicks tinker (understandable, he's 5500+) so I call offlane with Zeus, then I get a drow ranger + panda pick and they come top with me (sigh...) I end up buying a few of the OBS but unfortunately that doesn't stop my SF/Drow from feeding. It's interesting to note I took almost no creep kills in lane phase and ended up with arcane + aghs about the same time my Drow has shadow blade + treads + aquila. I'd say the Drow is probably 4200-4500 judging by his awful item choice and complete lack of map awareness.
My final game:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/744694767
The clockwerk is 5500-5600 MMR (He's Arcanis- http://www.dota2.com/leaderboards#americas). I don't know about the MMRs of other players besides the Tinker on the other team (5500+), I think the average for this one was close to 5k since I'm not used to seeing such competent teammates. I end up playing Spec (Razor randomed immediately and called mid, didn't feed in his lane or any of that stupid bullshit which was a relief for once) and going up against a PA/Lion/Veno trilane so my farm wasn't very good early, but I eventually catch up. Probably got some points for this one and ended up at 5.3k.
So yea the moral of the story is during calibration tinker/zeus have it much easier, however if u can still perform well at 5000+ you can play pretty much anything (my last game on Spectre) and gain MMR.
I honestly think 5300 is a bit higher than what I should have, in reality I'd say 4800-5100 is my proper range just comparing myself to the players I see usually in my ranked games. Anything below 4800, I usually see a shit ton of blunders that clearly lose the game more than whatever I choose to do. So yes, if I were sitting at 4700 on my main, then trying to grind up to 5000 or even 4900, it could take a very long time. (The least retarded definition of "elo hell" you could get, even though I don't believe in it anyways) That being said, I don't think being rated 4700 versus being rated 4900 is any difference, people just like to have higher numbers to embellish their dota reputations.
@wink
In all of those games i was either supporting or trolling cuz the game was already over, except for the game i played sniper.
I bought crystalys on storm...when they were breaking my base. Not. as a core item...i had 5kills in 5 mins so a blootstone seemed better than an orchid.
As slark i always build s&y before skai, but again. I got a couple of kills in a row and had to buy something quick from the sideshop: orb
^if you are trolling around, you have no excuses for losing.
also, orb alone is fine on slark, you dont need to spend another 5000 gold just because you have a 275g item in your inventory
There's a great reddit post on sustaining vs climbing MMR, I advise everyone to give it a read. It will probably change the way you think about MMR:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/21bo7q/mmr_experiment_update_2/
"I do not believe skill is a value that is constant value. I believe skill, in a team game, is an equation that fluctuates based on the skill of your team. This, of course, should not be confused with the illusion of playing better based on the fact that your teammates are making the game easier. No, what I'm saying is your skill timings and initiations and all other varying aspects of gameplay are amplified or beneficial to the situation based on your current team's skill. The easiest example is if you are clockwerk, and you hit a monster hook on a player that should most definitely die, but doesn't because your teammate doesn't go in. Did you perform badly in theory? No. Did you perform badly in actuality? Yes, you did, and so did your teammate. See the double negative that occurs? I believe that this result, both players playing poorly is not independent of one another.
Again, half of you will probably confuse this with me saying "your team is bad, it's not you, it's okay". This isn't what I'm saying. [u]I'm saying your failure to recognize to ineptitude of your team is what makes you not good at solo queue.[/u] Not your mechanics, not your knowledge, your lack of understanding that your team WILL NOT HELP YOU. I think a lot of players may be stuck at their current MMR, frustrated with their seemingly superior mechanics, unable to figure out why they cannot progress. Don't look at your team, look at yourself, and maybe you will find that you can modify your gameplay to favor the current solo queue bracket you are in relative to your skill level."
Try to read: the games were already decided, why would i troll when there is a chance to win?..
With orb i ment ultimate orb.....i already had the orb of venom, so making a sny would be more expensive than finishing skadi
And i said: 4/5, and this is a general statement, not just for me. Qqq is proof: you can be better than ur team without carrying.
If ur truly better than ur team but not able to carry them consistently, i'd argue ur probably 100-300 mmr away from ur "real mmr." like i said before, i think my "true mmr" is somewhere in between 4800-5100 just because the players in that range tend to perform as well as i do, on average, but on my main account my MMR is 4700.
it's inherent in elo systems to have this randomness, which leads to so many rage threads about matchmaking
Nice job! Honestly does it matter whether he calibrate on a smurf to 5k or whatever? How in any way does it hurt any of you guys? Hurt because of jealousy? And then use some smurf reasons to cover up your jealousy. Whether he deserve the 5k or not is not up to us to decide. At least he achieve the target he set. And whether he drops backs down again, its not our business either.
And before people start to call a smurf siding a smurf, look at my games. No ranked. I am not smurfing to calibrate "higher". I am "smurfing" to train my meepo and once i get better i intend to see how much mmr i can go with just all meepo games alone. On my main i dont even have an mmr, so yeap.
Inicia sesión para poder publicar comentarios.
NO MORE ELO HELL