General DiscussionTo Matrice: Terrorblade jungle question/build

drums no. Midas Hell nah

Well i'm not matrice... but the early 3 str is not going to help you that much compared to damage and armor that slippers get. His build is all about the 3 wraith bands. Once you have them you reach a critical mass of damage and armor. You are suggesting going 2 wraith bans and 1 Bracer to then end up with drums. It is an unnecessary cost as it is just going to slow down your Yasha and BoTs.

What you are suggesting isn't "wrong", it is just a playstyle difference. If you go drums, you are more going for a style where you want to team fight much more, and you would probably go for treads as well. Thing is, TB is all about fighting with Metamorph and farming while it is down during the midgame, and the drums don't complement it as much.

Basically, drums is not "bad" by any means, but it does not seem as optimal to do so with jungle TB, and makes much more sense with a safe lane TB. You are only getting the drums for the str and the int basically, so perhaps against heavy magic lane where you would want the extra health and more mana for illusion spam?

Hand of midas? Just no imho.

Basicly no, drums will only delay ur other items, same with midas. You don't need midas on a hero like TB, since he only needs lvl 8 to start the hard push.

You usually would want to build damage items like s&q, manta or butterfly, if you get some issues with 1 guy (like storm etc.) then sheep or skadi might also be an alternative. Reason for not building 'HP' items early is because you usually would want to play TB as a hard pusher and not really join ur team in fights. If you however have the better teamfight and you can see that you will win if you join in, then you can do that aswell, but your main objective should be pushing towers down with illusions which should have a lot of damage.

^

This is my feeling as well. Finally lost a legit game with jungle TB out of all the ones i've spammed the past few days and drums seems to be poop on him. Same as HOM. I prefer the lvl 8 W/E max, push lanes, the 3 wraith bands at early game/quelling blade and boots of travel within 10~12 min seems to be the best build then yasha for the movement speed/dmg.

Been having to build BKB frequently though in case i get caught by a stunner that blinks in (map vision costs a premium since I am not supporting...)

Yeah I agree with the last game I had since I finally lost. Seemed to slow down my yasha after my BOT on the drum build. Was ineffective.

reminds me of old tb with movable life drain

@whoever

Can anyone link me to a vid or replay of how Matrice plays his jungle TB? Or a replay that show the same thing really. His last TB games are too long ago, the replays have expired :(

Yeah i would like the replay too

Yea i would also want to try this TB jungle :)

Midas, NEVER on spammable illusion hero, it reduce your farm speed... while reducing by a lot the presure you can put on opponent.
and anyway, midas in not about gold but about xp, which isn't the main goal of illusion spammer (dunno if you can check on my dotabuff, but my tb has really low amount of xpm among my heroes)

As stated before, drum is not suited for wood tb, why ? just because drum is not full dps item, while in wood, you need full dps early, and you only start to get hp when you consider man fighting. (no spell to tank in the wood)
On a more important note, i tryed several build, such as the 2 circlet queling start, (in order to go wraith + aquila instead of 3 wraith, [in wood i cann't afford the +500 gold cause of some timing] )
And only the 3 slippers + circlet allowed me to have a reliable respawn of satyre/wolves camp (especially relevant in radiant wood)

So if i was making drum (starting with gauntlet instead of a slipper) 1st i would farm slower in wood, 2nd the drum would delay by 1500 gold my yasha (so again farming slower), 3rd my illusions would not deal as much damage for pushing the tower, 4th i would end selling a 2k gold item pretty often (it's not worth a quelling blade to clean wave/wood).
5th, my sange is more or less the role of the drum, in mid game, but costing one slot less, and using the movement speed more efficently, mid game, you are better at getting 1 speed for you, and 1 slow for opponent, then getting 2 speed for you, if you want to kill a specific hero.

oh and about my terrorblade, you will most likely not see me play at all solo rank, as during ti, it takes fucking shit load of time to find a game, (3 day ago, i waited 2h30 without finding a game)

And i don't play tb duo queue, so unless 3 or 5 men queue, no tb

Thanks for all your guys tips, especially matrice! :D I know this isn't my thread but I appreciate it and can't wait to try it. Hope I can get the hang of the jungle part oO

matrice what is ur mmr? does this tb thing work at 4,5k+? cause i wouldn't say so (meant for solo ranked qs)

Oh, i forgot about the vid:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=242478032

I hope the vid i posted still works ^^

So there's no available replay for a tb game? Btw what's ur mmr coz it would be high as fuck coz you queued a 2h30 without finding any match would be huge mmr

midas->vanguard->radiance
best item

I have some matrice's TB replays downloaded. Can upload it, gonna take a while though, gotta find them.
Anyone interested on it? so i don't waste my time.

well midas on arc (if you consider that spammable illusions) is core. :P

arc, is not illusion, it's copy of heroes with timing life, illusion doesn't benefit from raw damage, nor from most aura, nor from an activable inventory, but arc's ultimate do.
Telling that arc's ultimate spawn illusion is like telling meepo's ultimate is illusion

@Letthesunshinebaby I'm around 6k7 for now, but this behaviour only happen during great event, such as ti (2 years ago, every final that was announced ingame was giving the same result though :-(

u say u tried a lot of stuff for the tb jungle like there was some kind of research, but in my time we always did that in d1.
goin jungle with no tangos but only slippers to get x3wraith ~ u can use suicide also to get full hp/mana, it makes u win a lot of time in very early

Sleave i am

The going wood with no regen is not from me though (starting build was even 4 slippers), it's from old top french player, back in 6.48 (when i actually started to play dota).
At that time, tb was even played illu stat, with fisrt lvl of meta at level 6 or 8 (no sunder taken before 12-13)
I'm not even sure stout shield was existing at that moment ^^
But illusion were more tanky (taking 200% damage and not 300% like now) but dealing 5% damage less (up to 55%)

My reasearch only went about the starting build, nothing more.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri7ke66vaysey60/675553476.dem

try to download from here.

downloading now, lets see wat all the fuss is about

thanks

Thanks :D won my first game with a new record for my tower damage. But good lord, I sucked early... well all game but most of all early. I was only 6 at 8 min in... Need to practice this a lot... Plus I can't really compare :( I'm only 3.5k

btw, ty @ SLEAVE for the upload <3

TY for the replays

@ɪηeѵ
Im pretty sure that you can be 100% safe from ganks in 3.5k just by telling your teammates to say that terrorblade is afk in all chat. Nobody knows that TB can jungle and as long as you dont constantly kill the creeps close to the enemy offlaner you should be fine.
Its pretty cheesy but we know how annoying it is when that Nyx assassin camps in your jungle...

Lol, I haven't had that happen to me yet luckily, only a BH screwing with me in jungle once a while ago :D

well you can nitpick all you want, its still an illusion.

Arc Warden is so gay.

Hey Matrice,

Thanks for the input. I read this while working on a install at a hospital today, and watched the video. Had a lot of down time. I don't log in on my steam acct. on my phone so I just read and didn't post.

Thought I would throw out the kudos and TYVM since I just got done with it. I figured HOM was a poor decision, and I was sketchy on the drum but yeah I felt more ineffective straying from the standard you established. Again, probably hands down the best player on here and have a deep respect for you watching your replays.

Thanks,

Arc warden is the most noxious and cancerous heroe... He is like meepo for people too lazy to be good at micro..

Almost worse than techies.