General DiscussionEarth spirit still OP, check this out lol

you're going mid, support, offlane?

going mid, ganker / teamfighter / damage dealer, the atos and halberd help with survivability too

if you look at any of my games my hero damage (HD) the thing that really matters most is through the roof.

atos > stone pull > roll into stone > ult after hitting their team > drop stone and kick it to stun them all, then pop blademail or halberd depending on build and situation, and keep spamming stones and spread the earth cancer : )

he is op as fuck still lol.... like not even fair. I haven't come across ANY build or combination that has beaten this yet. The rape train of earth spirit gives the rest of your team and carries plenty of safety to farm up and be effective, and well yeah it's pretty much a guarenteed with 99% of the time haha. 5k+ here I come!

Agreed, I've been playing it for the past ~40 games. It was definitely OP before the nerf. It take a more skilful player to fully realize the hero's potential after the nerf kicked in. But still, ES FTW.

But I personally never tried the Atos build though. Might try it today :D

eul>u

sky>u

Eul is a good counter to ES. As for Sky, we'll just have to see which player's finger is quicker on their silence :P

lol I've gone up against euls, and sky, silencers, refresher tide ults, bkb's, pretty much everything. ..... and all of them have fallen to the bottle+brown boots + rod of atos lol. Hell, I even end up having to upgrade courier and ward a lot of games cause the supports are useless.....

just too much win

hmm RoA, never thought of that, gonna try it next game on ES

maybe you are pwning so hard because you are playin in the 2k-3k bracket? people probably forget to use eul, bkbs and stuff, if they ever build it

but you are supposed to suck as much as them but ur carrying them
nice job buddy

MMR?

hey i just watched a game and you left the base with nothing, just a set of wards
wtf man

No more screen of green

1. At least you put in the work to play earth spirit after the nerf since this hero at least takes practice unlike a ton of other heroes.

2. You just realized not to rush an upgrade to standard boots?

3. If your mid as Earth obviously you should have more overall success in game.

4. I guess I just don't see anything important or impressive here but congrats on your win streak.

450 ES games with 62% winrate yet still "high skill" bracket? I went +700 mmr within less than 100 games, used to have like a 85% winrate in ranked on ES @120 games .

He's not much weaker than before, just a little more skill-dependant, because his stun is the kick now. But he still has the same durations (except remnant recovery, which got buffed), damage, ranges, stats and 0.01+0 cast time (even Rubick and DK have backswing, come on...). The hero has just too much. At least he is useless when people starting getting BKBs.

Also what MMR are you playing on? The game you lost looks so bad buildwise. Enemy team almost had three desolators, lol. Pugna had no nether blast until 9 too.

Once he is in Captains mode we will get better results as for his game balance.

Otherwise 90% of the time people saying he is so grossly OP can't play him and suck with him. In fact gets kind of old some scrub who thinks he good playing furion saying ES OP when he has a 20% win rate on ES with 1.07 KDA.

aaaaaaaand u lost

oh nvm he's high skill :/

this guy goes to midlane without a single tango, a single stat, literally nothing. he buys a ward and rushes bottle, not even a single regeneration item, a pooled tango, nothing

"this guy goes to midlane without a single tango, a single stat, literally nothing. he buys a ward and rushes bottle, not even a single regeneration item, a pooled tango, nothing"

yup!!! Reason why? Earth just needs a bottle, and then brown boots and onto rod of atos. My current mmr is around 3500, I was 4k but I play with a lot of friends that aren't always the greatest, but hey it's still fun playing with them lol.

So I buy a set of wards to ward my own rune's and take pressure of the supports, no tango's or bottle or nothin that's right. I skill magnetic grip first, and use it to harass / last hit, and bottle spam mana to keep the magnetic grip dps harass going until someone is in a bad position and then kill them. Tankier heroes I need to wait to level 6 to kill, but squishies like sniper / puck / drow you can kill at 3-4 if you play it right.

Of course it'd be nice to get a couple tango's from supports or something, but honestly you just really don't need them at all. Like... literally at all, getting a fast ward out helps with not getting ganked, and well yeah haha. My ES win rate would be a lot higher if I only played with higher skilled friends, but meh it's just a video game and I like playing with certain people even though they aren't that great lol.

and yeah :*( I was 1 win away from a sea of green and we lost /sadface oh well haha.

^

I am frequently buying obs/courier/up courier as a carry in trashcan bracket so I feel the pain. GJ though.

you can't stand mid versus a decent player without regen, you'll get harassed to death as soon as they realize you dont have any regen

fight me as razor, and I will guarntee that you would regret not getting regen

or rune's.

well to be fair lots of people at 5k start with 2 branches + 2 pooled tangos which is pretty much nothing

"fight me as razor, and I will guarntee that you would regret not getting regen

or rune's."

I usually pwn razor's pretty hard mid. I don't need regen because I'm not melee last hitting unless it's really safe to do so, I use magnetic grip (the rock drop and pull) which has 1100 range, and I only need 2-3 last hits to get bottle going.

If anyone high teir wants to 1v1 i'm always game :) Pretty much the only thing I don't do well against mid (and by not do well, I just mean not murder over and over lol) is ember with his flame shield... and TA with refractive shield.

if anyone wants some lullz check out my last game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/821095227 I was mid vs a 4200 mmr puck, so I think my gameplay would stand up with 5k+ lol.

"well to be fair lots of people at 5k start with 2 branches + 2 pooled tangos which is pretty much nothing"

1)Honestly.... 100 gold for 2 branches, and the sidelanes giving up their tango's

vs.

2)me picking up 150 gold obs wards (with it having virtually no impact on my game), and letting a support grab an extra health potion, or another stack of tango's + clarity etc...

I'd tend to lean towards 2, anything to help the sidelanes do better is more of a win in my books. You just don't understand how safe it is for earth spirit the first minute or two of the game lol.

the difference is in 1 you have a bit of regen and spent 100 gold so 2 last hits mean you have a bottle, while in 2 you have no regen at all and spent 150 gold which means you need around 3 lh, if you don't get 3 out of 4 lh in the first wave you're really screwed

Seems like ES can definately carry you out of the potato bracket if you know what you're doing.

455 games on any hero and you should probably be able to break out of the 3k bracket using it tbh..

Problem with the potato bracket is most the players go right click carries and sure you might dominate the early game but longterm if your carry or carries is bad you end up losing.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/820966699

Pretty good example of this. ^ Take out doom from their team and I think we still win even with dumb carries.

Doom god's answer for idiots in Dota.

I agree ES is extremly strong and still very broken but he requires quite high skillcap as well as intuition to know how much dmg you can potentially deal. In the right hands is I think still the most broken hero in the game.

ok i see there is still some ppl who dont know the hierarchy of broken heroes so i'll give you the ladder.

meepo>tinker>void

then u have the ones who are a little bit too strong

tide>sky
but thats just cuz of the actual meta, no need to buff or nerf those.

Neither meepo nor tinker is broken. Earth is broken as phuck the whole idea that one hero can have a stun,silence and a slow is absurd. Thays while his ulti is aoe and dealing decent dmg. Compared to mapo whos easy to kill and hard to ply or tinker that requires shitload of farm before he can do anything

i wouldnt expect someone who dont know basic dota to understand my point

@ Deadshot "In the right hands is I think still the most broken hero in the game."

Your kidding right? I mean there are many things you cannot do as Earth Spirit which might make him broke ex: I cannot yank people from LC ult. I cannot yank people from void ult.

I mean honestly longterm other heroes just do things better and way more broken impact.

What I do believe is no hero has the overall versatility as earth spirit but the bottom line is he almost has way too much even for people playing him.

Also meepo not broke? There is a reason more general population learns meepo over earth and has success its cause its easier and the results are greater thus more broken.

when will people understand that tinker is not broken are u guys stupid or what

Also I get it now Deadshot.

In 6.81b you win 20% of your tinker games and around 60% of your ES games. Of course your ES is most likely subpar and in your most successful games you would have probably won regardless of you picking ES or not. (sample size your top 6 matches in 6.81b as earth spirit.)

The bottom line of this is regardless of the magic pros may or may not do with Earth Spirit when he is added to CM. If earth spirit was so easy and broken he would be way way way higher played by EVERYONE and have more success winning %. I mean for god sakes more people play IO.

@lol

Fine very very strong and easy to use in the current meta and little to no thought process required as far as itemization since well your only real choice is what to do with your 6th slot.

"very very strong and easy to use in the current meta" -> false, maybe true in the 3k bracket but in 4.5-5k+ people have already learned how to counter it. besides, every time i pick tinker i usually get smoke ganked like 3 times in the first 4 minutes or so

"no thought process required as far as itemization" -> KINDA true, but you still have to know if you should go dagon or hex, which most people don't seem to know. besides, this is not something that makes the hero broken... lots of hero have only 1 popular item build (void PA meepo razor viper ember...)

Not strong in the current meta? Yet it is your most strong, most played, and overall most successful hero in 6.81b?

So basically the counter is smoke ganking like madmen in the early phase but you always I stress always get your farm in the long run because that is how tinker is built.

It has been my most played most succesful hero since 2011.

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/86735371