no blink no shadowblade no movement items to close distance when enemy team has two heroes that are instakill food for tiny until late game
why echo saber for the way you play him? echo saber is meant to add on to his burst but you weren't playing him as a nuker style since u didnt go blink
dominator?? if you feel tiny has shit armor then investing 1.8k gold for 5 armor is a really bad way to go about it lol why not a cuirass instead of dom+moonshard?
cus I like lifesteal for farming. Idk how tiny really sustains without it since no hp regen. Echo sabre is for mana and farming/towers, really strong item in general on tiny. I didn't need bottle and never lacked for mana, plus decent stats in lieu of drums. Sabre is bursty but on tiny I think it's more about bursting towers, farming and mana than just init burst. Idk I should try him with a shadowblade before aghs I guess.
Why do you need mana regen on a non-nuker playstyle? Do you spam on creeps? 2.6k for echo saber, 1.6k more you get Aghs and you farm much faster without having to spam. safelane tiny you can rush an aghs in <12 mins, and not going blink on midlane tiny is bad
Echo for attack speed is HORRIBLE (1 extra attack every 5 seconds??) its gotten for the burst or the slow, the latter being not that good on tiny since u dont need that slow with ur disables and you, not using the gank/burst style wastes the initial benefit.
You don't get lifesteal on tiny usually because he doesn't need it, you get farm by clearing creepwaves and hunting other heroes, if you're jungling nonstop on tiny you're doing something wrong
gank tiny = boots > bottle > blink > treads (optional) > aghs > cuirass/bkb/moon/travel
carry farm tiny = boots > phase (optional)> drums (optional) > aghs > bkb/cuirass/manta/whatever situational item
Well yeah with echo sabre you can use avalanche toss combos to clear waves, you have tons of mana and regen. I'm going to try it but then getting blink or silver edge next.
You mean leveling toss?
Lvl 7 tiny, 3/3/0/1 toss combo is 260x2 + 303 = 823 dmg
2/4/0/1 is 180x2 + 405 = 765
4/2/0/1 is 300x2 + 202 = 802.
Splitting points evenly is most dmg.
lvl 6 tiny is
2/3/0/1 is 360 + 303 = 663
3/2/0/1 is 520 + 202 = 722
I don't see how leveling toss first is ever better.
i think he really need shadowblade/dagger cuz even if you have shaker or clock or whatever you still need to be able to pick off solo in a pub game, and not just try to walk up to people
I mean like lvl 7 tiny build should be 2/4/0/1 and forget about craggy til ava toss is maxed. You toss creeps to farm dude and don't ava toss cus you use too much mana. Grow gives a bonus to toss. Just try it. You have to have blink or silver edge. Maybe get a bottle for sustain and you have to tread switch on this hero or you have no mana.
you kind of need to tread switch on every hero that has spammable spells and treads, but bottle is a good item for tiny i think in games i played tiny i got it most of the times
Well I'm a bad tiny player, but imo you will lose either way. If you really want to win, You should've went gank build (blink, shadow edge, dagon and ethernal) and finish it before 35 mins, but it would be very difficult to accomplish.
Idk they have huskar and viper, and riki didn't do shit offlane, we killed him a couple times, and luna didn't farm very well. thought this one was in the bag, but then we started losing every team fight. Their lineup doesn't look good to me but they owned us, mostly riki smoke and luna ult I think.
Umm toss only does extra dmg to the unit being tossed and costs same amount of mana as avalanche so I don't see how it's better for farming by much at all, only for the extra dmg to the one unit, and shorter cd ofc.
I gave up on tiny myself. Don't know if they'll ever buff him cuz he's got too much synergy with io in pro games .
You died many times, even tho you had decent farm. No reason to go dominator on him, madness is better if you need lifesteal.
If you invested 2500 gold from Travels and 2000 gold from dominator on something like MKB/HEX/AC/Heart, maybe you'd have a better chance at winning that game.
The no mobility on tiny seems very weird.. Tiny can't walk around.. And claiming you were losing fights I think you were going for the wrong person in fight.. If you can manage to instantly burst down Luna or necro or riki maybe you could have won.. But instead you were trying something else probably..and ended up losing every fight..
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http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2341051002
Disclaimer: I haven't watched the replay yet, but I will in depth later.
What's a tiny build now? There's too many options, I couldn't figure out what to do. All I knew was I wanted echo sabre for sure.
-Drums seems bad now for him.
-Blink tiny is good if you are imitation, but with echo you can build into right click right?
-Silver edge seems really good on him too, but I skipped it.
I was trying to build right click tiny safe lane. I went treads, morbid mask, echo sabre, dominator, aghs, moon shard, bkb. My thoughts on dominator was tiny has shit for armor. I needed some hp sustain for farming and another 900g for 5 armor and some dmg seemed worth it, plus I had intent to get satanic later.
I wasn't an initiator cus we already had axe. Still not sure if skipping blink was wise though. It helps with farm a lot too. But going echo sabre and dominator really limits slots. And I knew I'd need early bkb vs a necro, riki, huskar, luna lineup.
Other problem with this build, no yasha. I felt I moved really slow. I like manta a lot on tiny cus his ult is base dmg, but felt I couldn't fit it in with bkb. Then going moonshard over AC was probably a mistake too cus viper fucking destroyed us with right clicks. I didn't realize he was hitting that hard until too late. Most vipers go aghs and tanky shit, not dragon lance butterfly.
But still we had a gigantic lead. Ok, exp says only 10k, but we were at their t3s before losing a single t2. Then we started losing every team fight. I think issue was mainly riki. That fucking scrub had just two items, diffusal and basher, but would smoke and ult us in fights and lock down half the team. Then viper just ulted me every fight and ran away, every body kited me. I think I either needed to rush bkb before moonshard/ac for riki smoke or something. Every fight, I'd be in bashing people then all the sudden my entire team was fucking dead and they'd just kite me. Mirana was getting smoked by riki even with no items, and the jakiro idk. How does an aghs jakiro have 2nd lowest hero dmg in the game only ahead of dazzle?
I guess in retrospect my pick kinda sucked. I fp tiny, then they picked all ranged heroes who could nuke me without issue. But still feel like we blew it somehow. I have to analyze the team fights in the replay to see where I went wrong with picking my targets.