General DiscussionPull timings for supports

With the change in creep wave movement speeds and jungle camp locations, the pull timings for supports seems to have gotten quite difficult in this patch, and in 7.0 in general. This is especially affected as the game progresses, in which case the same pull time does not work no matter how hard you try.

However, I think I have found out a simple and neat little solution to this.

For the small camps, the pull time stays X:15 and X:45 no matter what the time is and X:53 to stack first. No problems there.

For the hard camps however, the pull times X:23 and X:53 do not always work. As the game progresses, the creep wave seems to slow down (I'm not exactly sure of the mechanics, I'm sure someone will point it out) and even if you position yourself correctly, the pull does not work. I think this is because the hard camp gives the added advantage of getting both a pull and a stack with a X:53 timing which can be seriously advantageous to the safe lane carry with farming potential like cleave or moon glaives, not to mention an easy and complete denial of XP and gold to the enemy offlane. If you want to make this work, don't look at the timer, look at the creep wave. Just keep an eye on the minimap and hit the neutrals at the exact time that your creep wave is under your tier 1 tower . Pull it normally as you would towards your lane, but dont come out, stand in the small clump of trees that you would walk through and let the neuts attack you. This will automatically draw the creep aggro. This timing will change as the game progresses, and gets harder as you reach the 10 minute marker. So dont bother with the X:53/X:54/X:55 marker. Remember, creep wave under tower.

P.S. this usually does not guarantee a stack but will guarantee the pull.
P.P.S. Btw, what are the jungle stack timings in general now? I find it quite confusing, because X:53 doesn't always seem to work on hard camps and X:55 only works on medium camps. Is X:54 a timing for any now?