if you snatch a shrine from ur midlaner/offlaner u deserve to lose anw so who cares
you must not yet know, that both player can stand near used shrine, please dont remark things for which you are too retarded to understand
with BS i remember running out of creeps in jungle to farm.
Also when i used to get Naga+Radiance my team would get absolutely zero farm and it pissed them off. maybe now they can get some farms :))
this is still an overall buff to jungler teams, since that way you can share the farm with your mid and your safealner.
Did Naga really get buffed though? She only benefits from the camp changes, everything else will be worse for the hero.
And yeah, Sven getting 800 HP out of thin air is too strong.
I develop sugoi farming patterns and gameplay from old patch. Consider old patch as training wheels to help u learn to balance farm and objectives. Nice job osfrog
#sugoi
Glad they changed it back tbh. It was so annoying to pull with only camps spawning every 2 minutes. Mess one pull up and you have to wait 3 minutes to get a stack pull again. Also ran out of camps with enigma within the first 3 mins.
Depends on the hero.
For heroes, who are "kind of slow", it is downgrade - troll, ursa, WK and similar heroes will have quite bad time, as it slows their entrance and their timing is soon (blink, shadow blade).
But it will open doors for a bit "unortodox" junglers, who can clear camps locally faster.
Then there is Venomancer, who can be a star (he can take by 3 mins all three camps in dire smaller jungle, 2 of them twice). This will accelerate his jungle even more, generally by (with proper stacking, probably more than) 60% (placing plague).
Enigma could finish all jungle by minute 2 and had to go to more difficult area (close to safe lane, disrupting pulls). Now she can stay safe, deep.
I want to definitelly try Medusa, when combined with Drow, in jungle. It will be probably similar time to become online, maybe even a bit longer, but after first 2-3 items (boots, aquilla, maelstorm/MoM) it will make her beast mode, when stacking every minute.
As well, HotD might make a return - dropped from meta, but now it can be used to stack ancients every minute. That makes it quite valuable for teams, who have Sven, Dusa, Magnus, TA, Alch or later BF carriers.
P.S. in my last game, I had medusa mid, offlane WK, jungle enigma, safelane drow and lich.
It even happened, that it was on timer XX:30 and I (medusa, who pushed a bit mid) had nothing to do - all lanes pushed, rosh dead, all camps cleared, even ancients and I was in the middle of the map and no farm available anywhere on the map... And it wasnt super late game, but around 25-30min in the game.
800 hp for sven out of nowhere
Remember when alche had a 300 bonus hp from rage but just okay regen from it? Pepperridge farm rrmembers
have yet to try jungle axe with new changes. still need talon/tango -> shield salve but you might need another salve before the ring of health? faster spawns and more stacks may ultimately make it faster
Someone should do math at what strength level old Sven did more damage.
I got 160 strength is break even, more would favor old Sven, 1.6(s+40)=2s
1.6s + 64 = 2s
64 = .4s
S = 160
Check it 200 * 1.6 = 320
160 * 2 = 320
Seems like a lot of strength needed, big buff. I think it makes armlet and heart subpar now since you get 40% less on your ult and Daedalus and attack speed better since more innate damage.
It is a buff for jungler although it's the meta again for TA, Luna and Sven or whoever that sweeps camps
They just switch the pushing meta into turtling again i guess
who is saying its a buff for jungler you just have no idea about jungling.
Who is saying that junglers now may share jungle with other lanes also have no idea about jungling.
All heroes jungle only until like max minute 15, and most of them finnish their job much sooner, you dont share jungle with anyone by that time, except 1-2 camps, that might be needed for meepo, or offlaner or shit like that.
And out of all heroes that can jungle:
ursa farms slower, legion farms slower, lifestealer farms slower, troll farms slower, wraith king farms slower, blood seeker farms slower.
Faster farm only for:
axe, venom, chen, enigma that all are heroes i dont really play anyway.
Dunno about lycan yet, this needs some testing.
Thank fuck, all you cancerous jungle shitters need to stop. I wish jungle only spawned at 3 mins
I'm interested to see what you think made naga better this patch kitrak, obviously camp changes are nice but rest of the patch changes were nerfs. Also in the last patch if you invaded enemy jungle and stole camps with illusions it was very impactful as enemy couldn't farm them for two minutes but now they respawn quicker.
Sven is top tier for sure though.
legion is at least hero that can sustain itself, you do not need shrine, or return to base to heal, he is perfectly ok in that, so he suffers from the shrine change less than ursa/lifestealer/wk :)
Ice tea, it was vice versa, you were 4.6 and i was 3.9-4.2 at that time :)
But then you can have another spawn for better camps( like Bear or Centaur?) Or you can take small camps to gradually level up, buy stout and jungle with more hp left
Sometimes it spawns right after u swept one (or you could stack when its time), saving you time to walk bootless to another camp
How is a shrine that CD 5 mins fuck you up that hard? You're supposed to be gucci with a tango until 5 and it's perfect timing that mid might he exhausted too
Just send salves with cour
i see a lot of ppl complaining about jungle being bad for cores now. Well, imo the jungle is not meant to be taken by a farmer (when you got solid lanes maybe furion is the only farmer+good jungler), jungle is meant to be taken by your position 4 (!) so enigma, chen, enchantres. They can grab levels fast and easy. Also whoever said bloodseeker is bad now at jungling can't jungle with him. The 20% less xp/gold do not hurt him since you can double stack and farm faster than any other hero lvl 1 jungle (besides enigma).
So please, learn to jungle and dont send a carrier jungle! This will make you lose anyways
Sincerely pbm
normal skill player tells others how to jungle, dude... you just clearly have no idea what you talk about :)
Jungling is an auto loss. I hope i could always play against you for free MMR. And thats why you are sent to lp too many times.
cause who the fuck cares about junglers, taking solo shrines cause they are bad at managing health, relying on their team to not fail laning phase and maybe going out of jungle after 20 mins with midas and deso or some shit without blink or sb and basically ruining games for others with 0 duel win and chainfeed
All I can say is it sucks playing pos 5 with your pos 4 going a god damn jungler instead of a roamer who helps with support items.
Nothing like getting flamed by mid and safe lane and offlane because they are losing all the lanes and you can only do one of
1) protect safe laner
2) TP rotate mid to stop the dive
3) gank the offlane carry whos at 40% HP.
4) Buying all the wards and sents , smokes and sitting on brown boots wand at 18 mins while a slark is getting ready to feast on you.
meanwhile LC, or NP are hitting creeps LOL'
ez reports, ez - 25 mmr
icetea bro ur still 3k looking realisticly xD u even stop playing dota cause u mad u 3k xd haHA
jungling isnt an autoloss and is extremely good in pubs if you have a good hero and not a moron
it's just the jungle players are the most braindead retards of all who steal shrines, bounties, runes, mid/safe camps, afk farm because the reason they go jungle is usually taking responsibility off while still being a core
i'm perfectly fine with bs jungle who goes to some lane and gets kills once he reaches 6, qs his cores and doesnt go for retarded items like radiance, actually i'd prefer him over a 2nd support most of the time, pretty sure i won more games solo supporting 3 cores + a remotely competent jungler than i did with another support in my team.
yeah that said i also kinda feel sorry for actually decent junglers because they get a lot of shit naturally + 80% of supports are morons who start whining because they have to solo support(wow what poor fellows!!!!!) when in fact a good jungler post 6 has 99999% the impact of idiots who pick 2nd support because its a correct way to play dota or smth when realistically all they do is soak up exp, "gank"(themselves) and enter wardbitch dick measuring contest with the other support competing in who places more useless wards in stupid places
but fuck junglers amirite??? =)
^^ @ Thinking
You are correct at many things, I love a counter pick BS jungle vs a slark, I just hate it when we got weak lanes , (Spec safe lane) and the jungler isn't the pick yet it gets picked cause someone doesn't want to roam or play a second support.
Going 4 cores 1 sup works quite a bit in 4k mmr. I assume the same in lower mmrs as well.
You're one of those clueless assholes that jungle with legion and then cry when your offlane is getting fucked in the ass. You buy brown boots and go straight into a blink dagger and ulti a midlane tiny then bitch at your team after you proceed to give him +10 damage. I have zero sympathy for you.
"ursa farms slower, legion farms slower, lifestealer farms slower, troll farms slower"
All heroes that perform much better in lane and should be in lane...take the hint
alphex, take the hint, that you are 1k player, and i had 66% win rate ursa only jungle in 4.5 k bracket so please don't bullshit about what is performing better were.
Also for further testing, i can say, that with ursa, before i was always top level after roshan, most of the time 1/2 levels ahead of mid players, currently, even after roshan, you are 1-2 levels behind to mid players, that sucks for heroes that can dominate mid game.
I only like junglers that actually have impact with decent timing loke bloodseeker and axe , other farm carry junglers can fuck off
so whatcha do with your ursa jungle if the enemy has a riki and another roamer getting your lanes fucked? cry i guess. also complaining about no shrines while it wasn't even a thing pre 7.00 
Inicia sesión para poder publicar comentarios.
Basically i am writing this to complain. Most likely icefrog didint even direct these changes aiming at jungling heroes, rather he wanted to buff fast clean sweaping jungle heroes like sven/antimage/luna, but the truth is that jungling got nerfed.
First of all, ability to use shrine only at level 5 is a huge nerf.
Some heroes, like Ursa, Troll needed that 1 shrine hard, so now they will need to go to base at very early minutes, or send healing salve, or even 2, what makes you lose 115-230 gold.
And of course its not the only loss, at early stages, jungle with map changes in 7.00 and increased creep camp number is big enough for early farming in jungle each 2 minutes. so basically this 1 minute creep respawn time changes nothing, you cant farm more anyway, but you just get -20% gold and xp, while all other lanes stay same, or get buffed (middle extra creep, xp bonus from deny), so true disadvantage to jungle is even more than 20%.
Of course i havent played enough games yet, but basically with ursa, roshan was taked between minute 6 and 7 depeding on which creeps spawn, as they give different gold/exp amount, now if you wait for same, level,items, you do not get them earlier than minute 8.
p.s. please dont bother writing that jungle sucks, ruins team gameplay, or etc. since with jungling heroes i have 60% or more win rate.that was really the game type i enjoyed in dota and i will miss from now on. :(