General DiscussionLuna - Situational Agh's Scepter Build - welcome bashers

Okay when behind

its theoretically good but doesn't suit luna when ahead cuz she just right clicks harder then
when behind its tremendous dmg u can use to turn fights

You can go aghs refresher build to nuke people down but this idea has several drawbacks:
-not a tower hitter anymore
-you suck if you dont use your ult properly/mistime it
-pipes, bkbs, raw hp

Someone did this shit in one of the majors and the enemy not only didnt itemize against this retarded magical damage output, they also didnt realize what happened.

Turning your hero into an ult dependent hero. Which sounds riskier.

Raw hp?
Do u understand how much sheer dmg aghs luna ulti does?
I killed a 6 heart axe with aghs eblade not even refresher

That's cute, but if that axe buys a BKB you are completely screwed, and that's the point. It is not nearly as easy to itemize against a physical dmg luna since no matter how much armor and hp you have if luna can trade with you, you're gonna die eventually. With the aghs refresher eblade veil build you fully 100% depend on the enemy not getting a bkb. And at that point I wonder why you're playing luna and not crystal maiden.

Raw hp works because you want to kill everyone with your ult and since it does a total of 6k damage (12k with refresher), you have to make sure the enemy team in total has less, there are no summons, etc, you have dust for invis heroes, nobody can quickly run away, etc. I mean a fucking OD can almost fully mitigate your aghs ult with astral, and what do you do when he is left alive to pound at you and you have aghs ethereal instead of proper items?

Of course, getting the whole enemy team low is good and all but in general if they have a pipe, you're screwed, if they have a rubick you're screwed, if they have heroes who can easily disengage, you're screwed, and if they have buybacks YOU ARE MAJORLY SCREWED.

You use up your aghs refresher shit, only to have the enemy team buyback, what then? Go back to your base? Even if they don't have buybacks you are shit at pushing, so if the fights occurs at your base you aren't accomplishing anything since you can't push quickly. The other option is to keep refresher exactly for buybacks, but if they don't gather around to get killed by you, you are gonna kill a hero or two, and a properly built luna can do that even without magic damage in most cases lategame.

But the bottom line is that if you build to deal magic damage you are shit at taking buildings and that is actually one of the things luna is matched for by only a handful of heroes. Win a fight, take a lane of rax, or two, or even all three. Or hell, finish a T3 and throne guys if they have no bb.

Let's also not forget blademails, you need BKB because the enemy team will mass blademails if they see you are retarded enough to think you can pull this off every time. A properly built luna couldn't give less of a shit about blademails (if she can react to them) because she will have a bkb for magic damage and satanic for physical.

if ur lategame is way worse than enemy's then sure it can help u win early fights to end early

if ur lategame is way worse than enemy's then sure it can help u win early fights to end early

Yeah, this is pretty much the only case where you would want to do this. But if slot and timing are not an issue (aghs given by alchemist) it's also amazing.

Pos1 Luna not getting right click power is just not right
I mean you farm, fight, push by right clicking, hence improving that all the way
If someone else can do the towers, sure
But you took pos1

I haven't tried going full magic damage on Luna.
My idea of building Scepter is to secure mid game clashes - I typically do this if enemy has very strong mid game and have at least 2 soft heroes without escape mechanism.
You gotta understand, you will finish this item before the enemy builds BKB.
When used properly, you can win 2 major mid game clashes and have the space and good start in buying your next tier item.

On a good day, I'm usually able to take down T2 towers and Roshan and then 5 mins of free farm after winning such engagements.

On the item progression: I used to go Manta after Scepter but I learned from this and decided to not skip BKB.
Item after BKB largely depends on enemy lineup - manta may not be that strong anymore since it acts as a tank + dps item.
But with Scepter and BKB - you may have to go straight for DPS (i.e. butterfly, mkb, etc)

@RPQ-sama, @Cheap Laugh Guy

Building Agh's Scepter vs going magic damage on Luna are 2 totally different things.
As you may see, I progressed with BKB + Butterfly after the Scepter.
I didn't go for Manta because enemy lineup has too much AOE that my illu won't insta-die

This is basically just choosing between Manta or Scepter as your 1st core item after the usual treads + lance + aquila + hotd/mom
After this, go full damage.

SCENARIO: If I build Manta...

- 1 chrono from void and I insta die with all burst damage from Tinker + Nyx + ES + Maiden
- If my teammate gets chronoed they die and then i will fight right click aganist a Time walking void and a spam magic tinker?

Since I built Scepter..
- I position very nicely and wait them to go on my teammate
- they will all FF whoever got caught
- I get to cast my ULT from a safe distance and let the entire enemy team eat it
- Most enemies will be low HP, Bloodseeker thirst will activate
- Luna burst ult
- Necro scythe

Again, had we not stupidly took rosh, we should have won the game

My comment was referring to going all in on magic damage, and fucking up your timings because you include aghs which you (sometimes) can't utilize properly. Other than that, it is situational just as you said. But going full retard with aghs-refresher-ethereal-veil or something like that is just dumb.

Then your right click DPS is horrendously delayed, after every won fight, there's not much of sieging and map control because you're basically useless for 2 minutes and farms/pushes slow. And it happens 3 or 4 times again to a point they get BKB, you stall the game to a point when Luna is basically a hero that runs fast and has Glaive while Void has his bash chance enhanced with attack speed items and has Time Walk for mobility. You want to end quick as Luna.
I highly suggest you get MoM instead of HotD (Have you read the patch notes?) as it farms faster than stacking while giving DPS, and skip Dragon Lance (Maybe replace with BoT) for faster Aghs

Situational.

@Cheap Laugh Guy

- We're on the same page when you said that this could happen 3 or 4 times at max before they eventually get BKB.

- Based on experience, my team can usually take T2 towers + Rosh after getting mid-game teamfights

- Also, carries might get BKB by then but the Scepter is still deadly for squishy supports who can't buy BKB. Typically, this just gets messed up if they can time the use of Glimmer Cape. But instant 5v3 is still advantageous

- re MoM: I have only tried it a number of times and I agree it speeds up my farm. I guess I just really wanted the extra stats that HotD gives (EDIT: I noticed it only gives +2 attributes now??)

- re skipping Lance for an earlier Scepter. I like the idea and might try it sooon. It could potentially give me scepter around minute 20. But whats your take on losing the additional range? I really like it especially when it goes down to a right click battle. Do you go back to Lance?

Aghanim Luna counter is Blademail.

That means that Aghanim Luna counters Standard Luna. The enemy of Luna is Aghanim Luna. Spooky.