General Discussion

General Discussionhow awful is it to pick carry-like heroes in offlane

how awful is it to pick carry-like heroes in offlane in General Discussion
.purgatory

    when you know you have a support and a possible laning stage

    Sygma.Pride ~

      Just block camp so they can't pull.
      Outlane them.
      Don't get something that needs too much to get online (pos 1 and 2 might take map farms as well, think about this tinker emptying your only jungle).
      Ward and don't overextend.
      Don't lose hard early game team-wise (pos 1 & 2 trying to recover VS fed ennemy pos 1 & 2 => 3v5).
      => Enjoy game

      .purgatory

        i know how it works im asking how viable it actually is

        Vandal

          I have more farm there with pos1 heroes than in safelane.

          Sygma.Pride ~

            i know how it works im asking how viable it actually is

            It's viable if they don't negate your exp with pulling & stacking (point 1).
            It's viable if you have a pick that gets online fast enough (point 3).
            It's viable if your cores don't steal the few farms you will need (point 3).
            It's viable if you don't overextend and get shut down by 5 hungry pissed off ennemies (point 4).
            It's viable if your team is not going to get roamed and snowballed early as you will dedicate the pos 4 to a given lane (point 5).

            => Yes it's viable but the viability relies on drafting and execution. You have a ~1% -> 3% average winrate loss depending on the hero however as it's usually poorly executed and pos1&2 are greedy.

            What else viability information do you need ? You want some Dashboards with graphics, KPI with a capability to filter on a given hero with a given lane ? ?_?

            Btw, you can check lane presence and winrate on the hero page (example : chaos knight, 1%WR loss but still above 50%): https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/chaos-knight

            Este comentario fue editado
            Path to Victory

              It's fine in the lane if your support is strong and theirs is weak. The bad part is that you end up with 3 carries. I would recommend lane swapping with the offlane in a few games but just picking another carry is usually quite game losing in this fast paced meta.

              stand up against the chin...

                Only works if your safelane and mid are "softer" carries like Ursa or weaver. Dont do it if you have antimage in your team

                KingY

                  Brew/Slardar/Elder/Undying/Underlord etc I'm seeing a lot of phase/vlads/blink builds where they're oddly tanky & deal good damage. They just man fight and take kills.

                  I kinda feel like they're bruisers from LoL.

                  .purgatory

                    yeah might give core slardar a try, not a bad idea

                    John Connor

                      You can easily get away with 3 typical carrys in 3k.

                      .purgatory

                        but beyond 3k you cant? my acc is evidence that you can do that in 3k anyway

                        InvokerzEp1c

                          hi cnp youre back

                          Jón Páll Sigmarsson

                            stop doing that tards

                            Dukeus

                              If your a smurf and like 1-2k better than your opponents i would recommend it. Dont trust your carry.

                              If you play at your lvl. Just Pick a solid offlaner with Blink to initiate Fights or some aura, teamfight items. Its better. If you want to go a bit creedy go LC or Ursa offlane. They come online faster and create a lot of Chaos and space for your carry early midgame.

                              Imprecis

                                If you have initiator in the other lane then it shouldn’t be bad. The problem I see often is the lack of hero to initiate if you have 3 carries. Even in late game 3 carries would mostly lose to a typical offlane + 2 carries.

                                .purgatory

                                  Could you elaborate on the skillset needed for a hero to be classified as a -typical offlane- ? if its not too annoying...
                                  Im aware of this and honestly its the reason why im asking. Perhaps this could be remedied by playstyle/item changes rahter than necessarily picking a different hero? (obviously doesnt work for traditional carries)

                                  i know just because a hero is classified as an offlaner in , lets say, dotabuff likely lanes doesnt mean hes by definition a typical offlaner you speak of; notable examples surely include Riki as well as Windranger. so im looking more of a generalized description of the role rather than hero names.

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                                  EMPI light

                                    a typical offlane is any hero that could survive with a 3 man on the other side and can initiate mid game and is tanky to some extent
                                    ps. i dont know how you survive with riki offlane tho hahahah

                                    .purgatory

                                      i dont think there is a hero in this game that can survive 1v3 lol

                                      unless u are against such apes that you got a bristleback axe that is 1 item and 4 lvls ahead

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                                      EMPI light

                                        thats why some viable picks for offlane are tides , slardar , bb , axe , centaur etc. because they are tanky at nature so they can really go near to leech xp and not suffer the free hit of supports because when you pick a squishy one well its highly possible that when a support can see you near you will be dead in no time

                                        EMPI light

                                          @kingY said it pretty much accurately

                                          Jón Páll Sigmarsson

                                            skill set is that the hero doesnt eat up all the farm on the map for the actual carry, either is a frontliner or has catch/initiation.

                                            i dont see the point of picking somethig like luna or jugg offlane, just makes the game go for 50 minutes and only reason you win is because the enemy team doesnt punish the greedy lineup.

                                            which happens quite often in 3k..enemy team has slark arc warden and gyro, lets afk jungle for 35 mins and then wonder why 3 cores win

                                            .purgatory

                                              idk i pick shadow fiend offlane, rape the lane and spawncamp them with bloodthorn at 20 mins but its luck i guess

                                              i guess i will not play offlane in high rank lol

                                              HanYolo

                                                it's definitely ok if it is the better lane to goto. that said, playing in the offlane is still different. you end up farming less and having to play safer for some reason. remember to hit creeps!

                                                Este comentario fue editado
                                                bearcat0611

                                                  One idea would be bounty hunter. He's a decent laner if you're leveling up jinada and doesn't eat up a lot of farm on the map. The one thing you need to make sure of though is that the rest of your team has teamfight because you don't provide much.