General Discussion

General DiscussionInteresting account(s)

Interesting account(s) in General Discussion
Upgrayedd

    https://www.dotabuff.com/players/1233071043

    He has a sub 50 percent winrate. Less than 150 games. Just laned against him and he was useless - bought wand before boots and didn't ward the lane. According to his account profile in the Dota client he has an 81 percent winrate and 8 game winning streak with Spectre, a 66 percent winrate and 5 game winning streak with AM and an 87 percent winrate and 5 game winning streak with Monkey King. Running the math based on the percentages, he has at least 26 games with those three heroes and could have 52 games with them at a 76 percent winrate. Now, if he has 26 games with those three heroes, at a 76 percen winrate, then he also has 98 games with all other heroes at a 38 percent winrate. However, if he has 52 games with those three heroes then he has 64 games with all other heroes at an 18 percent winrate.

    Let's examine scenarios that could explain this account

    A) a really new account that just happens to be really good at three heroes. I mean, does anyone really believe that an account with 132 games just happens to be really good with three non pub stomping heroes? While theoretically possible it's just not plausible.

    B) a returning play who used to spam those heroes so he has a great winrate with them but really bad with other heroes. Okay, one thing to keep in mind is that none of those heroes is the sort with super high individual skill caps so they are winning by doing normal, read non cheese, Dota. This means the account is played by someone who uses an understanding of things like itemization, farming patterns, selecting teamfights and reading the map to win his games. These are all things that a player with 132 games wouldnt understand

    C) A smurf account. Now, when we think "smurf" we think of smurf we think of accounts with a 90+ percent winrate, a player who just smashes game after game, but that isn't what we are seeing. So, is this a smurf account? Well, that depends on what you think smurfs do. Let's take a 5k player who starts a second account and calibrates into herald. In half his games he throws and in the other half he ends the game by himself in 25 minutes. Is that a smurf? Of course. Is he better than the people in his games? By miles. So, why does he throw games to stay in herald? The reason is obvious.

    BTW, herald is full of such accounts. Often, these accounts are a players first account and they aren't even interested in ranking up. Are such players "herald"? Probably not. They may not be, technically speaking, smurfs but they are much better than the average herald so they throw games to stay in herald and just screw around.

    .
    .

      Or maybe hes just a 1k player who made a smurf and is not very good and is trying to learn and get better so they make mistakes and have bad games especially when not playing their best role or hero.

      Upgrayedd

        Since the game in question was probably above 1k avg mmr I don't see how he is smurfing. He's probably around 700 mmr and I don't see how one smurfs as a 1k in 700mmr. But let's just say he is really a 1k player with a second account that is 700. How, then, does he manage to get an 87 percent winrate on Monkey King with an account that is only 300 mmr below his main account? It's not like there's a ton of difference between 1k and 700. Elo is a smooth distribution so the ranking markers are arbitrarily placed, meaning 300 mmr is only a single ten game losing streak from one another.

        .
        .

          Because the most successful hero thing doesnt mean jack shit when I was fairly new to the game and 1K mmr I had 80% win rate with Zeus and Sniper and PA but only like 10-15 games but my overall win rate was 51%, u can literally have 7 games and have 85% win rate and 5 streak it doesnt mean anything. There is not much difference no one said that, the guy 99% most likely belongs around that 1k MMR range and hes not just throwing games on purpose so he can stay herald.

          Este comentario fue editado
          Upgrayedd

            The only way you get a 7 game winstreak and go 8 and 7 as a new player is if you are *really* lucky by getting competent teammates or the other team is throwing griefing, usually the latter. Basically, as a new player after calibrating, all your game win chances are 50 percent. The odds of winning 7 games in a row is .5^7. The odds of winning 5 games in a row, 7 games in a row and 8 games in a row is .5^7x.5^5x.5^8 - I dont even need to pull out my scientific calculator to know that the odds of that are astronomical. Occam's Razor sez ... that account deliberately loses games when they don't get the role/hero they want.

            .
            .

              That doesnt matter because its not a rule that you have to win all 7 games in a row. You can play 300 games in in those 300 games the 7 win streak with 1 hero would be spaced out between many games. Maybe they dont deliberately lose when they dont get their role, but they just suck at the role especially if they are at one of the lowest skill brackets in the game.

              Upgrayedd

                [block]but they just suck at the role especially if they are at one of the lowest skill brackets in the game.[/block]

                Okay. Let's take an actual game I had as a hard support where my Anti Mage carry, guardian3, came to lane with 600 gold and did buy anything until Broadsword at 12 minutes. Is that throwing, or just merely "bad at the game". BTW, the account had several thousand games. I would argue that the player in question wasn't bad, but was deliberately throwing. I've had 6 game win streaks were I won because the enemy core came to lane with no items (or some nonsense like brown boots) in all six games. I've had 6 games loss streaks where my core came to lane the same way in all six games. I would argue those cores weren't bad at the game but were throwing.

                .
                .

                  Idk whats confusing u so much people in Dota 2 do stupid shit this is not something new, and you are playing in Herald where some people genuinely might not think what they are doing is deliberately throwing since they are not super try hard players and they try different stuff in their games that is not optimal, weather its out of curiosity/experimenting or just out of lack of knowledge. U can see shit like that in 7k average games, hell even in pro level pubs, u can see it in any MMR. Just cause you do what you believe is correct "believe" being the key word since you are Herald (bad at dota 2) doesn't mean you are consistently a better player then those players.

                  Este comentario fue editado
                  chill

                    idk why you expect people to know anything in herald rank

                    Upgrayedd

                      Explain why an account with over eight thousand games plays spectre offlane and starts with brown boots. Does that person just not know that spec isnt an offlaner and, even if you thought you could get away with it because "anything works in low mmr", you wouldn't start with brown boots and spend 20 minutes trying to take safe farm with a carry drow. Are you saying that my thinking brown boots spectre offlane is unplayable, sans the other team griefing even harder, is just a "belief"?

                      .
                      .

                        Because he has 8 thousand games and like 700 MMR? People do weird shit like that in higher MMR too how do you not expect a Herald player to do that. I just had an Immortal player go Gyro offlane (We already had offlaner) and he farmed Aghs and Butterfly for 35 minutes, explain that. People do stupid shit.

                        Este comentario fue editado
                        Upgrayedd

                          idk why you expect people to know anything in herald rank

                          https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6890950014

                          Here's a game where i played with a Crusader1 carry. I was playing Omni with a Jugg carry into an offlane Pudge/Lion. Now, that lane deals a tone of magic and pure damage and has 4 spells that require hard dispels, meaning that lane hard counters my Omni. I got Jugg his levels and told him over mic I was leaving the lane because I was useless against that combo. My ult doesn't protect against damage and my dispel is useless against all their disables/damage. What does he do? "useless support". Excuse me? What did you want me to do? Stay in lane and die with you? I told you I was useless in that lane and you continued to go back and die. We still won.

                          I, as a Herald, recognized I could do nothing to help him in that lane. He ignored me and spammed "bad support" for recognizing my inability to help him in that matchup. So, you tell me why a Herald understands the matchups but the Crusader does not. So, a Herald clearly understood a matchup a Crusader did not. You tell me how that works

                          .
                          .

                            I watched this game and you are literally the worst player I seen in my life, like top 10.

                            You took your heal level 2 and you literally didn't heal Jugg once. NOT ONCE. Even if he is 200 HP, you are full mana and have 4 mangos, YOU DO NOT HEAL JUGG once through the entire laning stage that lasted 12 minutes. You don't take your double dispel first vs Silencer and you talk about "understanding matchups" when u can literally dispel 2 heroes vs his curse... instead you let him use it 8 times before you finally skill it and u still don't use it sometimes. You buy 4 mangos and u literally don't use spells, you used your first mango at minute 6:20 when the laning is usually over in higher mmr games, you walk around with 500 gold and won't even buy 1 salve or tangos to share with Jugg as pos 5, you dont get a single pull off in early laning cause u dont even check if the small camp is blocked til 5 minutes and you finally pull at 7:15. I watched like 10 minutes of your game and its clear ur literal dogshit at this game, have 0 understanding of your role, and have no right judging anyones play.

                            Este comentario fue editado