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burger time

    I was pretty suprised to see how hard Jug's winrate fell when I checked it the other day. I guess it's justified since he had the best crit in the game, an honor that PA should have had.

    F4th0m0r9

      I usually give Grace to a few typos in these articles, but isn't Pugna a dude? The pronouns "her" and "she" are used in... "It's" paragraph.

      Este comentario fue editado
      Krypton_LSD_97^MDMA-(Mari...

        The real cause of jugg winrate is because i'm spamming it x)

        No Handshake

          @F4th0m0r9: indeed Pugna is a "he".

          I also lament the lack of rigour in these articles. The central claim of this post is that Valve is following an approach of "highlighting weak spots instead of weaking strong aspects." And then follows a list of four heroes, with 2 overall buffed (Pugna, Nature's Prophet), and among the 2 overall nerfed heroes (Juggernaut, Ttinker), only Tinker serves to illustrate the central claim.

          If Dotabuff is to set the bar higher than your daily eSports tribune, please aim at harmonizing claims, examples, and explanations.

          Kevin the Fateful

            Во-первых, Кавай, выучи ты наконец английский.
            Во-вторых, Пугну называть "она"- это уже перебор. Такая ошибка простительно разве что моим 2к тиммейтам, которые играют в доту второй месяц. Для них и Пугна, и Урса, и Энигма- всё "она".

            Johnny B. Goode

              @Burger Time
              That's exactly why they teach maths in school.
              PA crit: 15% crit chance × 450% crit dmg + 85% no crit chance × 100% normal attack dmg = 152,5% average dmg enhancement.
              Her crit increases her average dmg output by more than 50%.

              Old Jugg: 35% × 200% + 65% × 100% = 135% average dmg enhancement.
              New Jugg: 35% × 180 + 65% × 100% = 128% average dmg enhancement.

              His crit is more consistent but was never close to PAs.

              add me if you fuck good

                SF every game is super boring hope they nerf him hard in the next patch

                Este comentario fue editado
                idc

                  Lyle bcs even i can smurf into tha5 bracket with sf ofc they r super boring bcs sf stomp mid really hard

                  Учитель Секса❤

                    PUGNA IS MALE!!!

                    ShipShipMaya(Youtube)

                      Pugna is male tho, with the voice of hoovy and alcoholic black man.

                      KawaiiSocks

                        I changed the Pugna pronouns) Sorry about the confusion, it is a very old habit of sorts stemming back from W3 Dota days. Pugna sounds like a noun with a female gender in Russian and old habits die hard. Same with Ursa and Enigma as well. And I don't have voiceover for heroes in game and don't play Pugna regularly enough anyways for it to flip back in my mind.

                        Regarding the central point of the article, I've mostly looked at the heroes with highest win rate differences affected by the patch, rather than looking for specific cases which would back up the claim, that still holds true. Most of the heroes nerfed, including Lycan, Dusa, Omni etc. didn't change much in terms of their pub presence or win rate. "This hero lost 0.5% win rate" makes for a rather boring storyline. Thanks for feedback though — will definitely try to find a more appropriate angle in the future, if the examples I am providing are not necessarily fully in sync with the main claim.

                        @Kevin The Fateful
                        Тут как раз проблема в том, что в доту играю слишком много лет и для меня Пугна, Энигма и Урса всегда будут барышнями. Про английский не совсем понял)

                        MM.Ugh Brock Hall

                          @KawaiiSocks

                          There's something to be said about the buffs you mentioned that act as inderect nerfs to popular heroes however, especially in the case of Pugna. Any buff to Natures will also mess with Dusa, possibly forcing her to opt for extra split shot targets.

                          ayieeee

                            did u just assume Pugna's gender!?

                            Kevin the Fateful

                              @KawaiiSocks, бывает делаешь глупые ошибки. Признаю, в этом тексте их не нашёл. Статья, в которой первый раз обратил внимание на это была посвящена Киевскому мажору. Переодически по-прежнему бывает.
                              Не хочу, чтобы мои комментарии звучали грубо- прошу прощения, если вдруг задел.

                              crov (crabby)

                                juggernaut is a stape dota hero

                                Sleight of My Fist In You...

                                  lol ^ why are russians writing articles in english....also a team's carry is their primary tower killer...explain how tinker does that? he's not a damn carry noob, he's tempo and hero control,...'hardest carries in the game' my ass

                                  Este comentario fue editado
                                  Ath[e]isT

                                    ^ people think tinker is a hard carry because of perma disable

                                    Sylvyr

                                      Someone takes the term carry a bit too literally. We're talking carry as in 'hero that does better with a high farm priority' not 'safelane farming hero'. Carry doesn't have a hard and set definition outside of what I just said, so I think tinker does count as a hard carry, just that he's a mid caster and not a safelane right-clicker. Think of him like a spectre or dusa, he needs lots of space and some time, but give him that and he'll turn into a lategame monster that will make the enemy want to commit suicide, just like said carries.

                                      MM.Ugh Brock Hall

                                        @Sleight of My Fist In You...

                                        There are lots of carries that don't focus on being the hardest hitters to towers. While they certainly can put out a lot of damage to towers, the main focus of heroes like Slark, PA, Ursa, Lifestealer, Tinker, Ember, or Blood (if we're being even more liberal with the definition) is not to take out towers, but to take out heroes to allow a safe, if lengthy, tower seige. None of these heroes are going to be jumping to grab heavy pushing items like radiance or manta to mow down creeps and towers. None of them have abilities to aid this either, like Razor, Drow, Clinkz, Brood, Luna, Dusa, AM, Arc, Chaos, or Gyro do. Traditionally, sure, most carries have a high physical damage output, but it's not unheard of to see Meepo, Tinker, or even Storm Spirit given priority farm while playing the 'teamfight carry' role for lack of a better term, as opposed to the tempo role which relies a little more on pickoffs and initiation.

                                        These terms are certainly helpful, but I'd say it's good to understand that the terms are only a generalization of a responsibility in a given match, and considering you have five players, the roles you pick can shift around a little. There are options for having two farming cores and no mid tempo role, or the now dead offlane morph 'harass and retreat', sometimes also employed with an offlane Weaver.

                                        Other farm priority heroes that don't have to rely on their tower damage: old Necro, Faceless, Huskar, old Slardar, Bristleback, Abaddon, Centaur. Notice that most of these heroes also don't often appear as a carry, but have the option to do so.

                                        breast aware

                                          Why isn’t sleigh of fist or whatever permanently banned? The guy is pure cancer in every comment section

                                          Ken Kaniff From Connecticut

                                            all these guardian players and crusader players talking about winrate affecting their games and all LOL and dis tinker carry argument is stupid do u guys think carry means u have to go and right click enemy in the late game ?

                                            SilverSoul

                                              Well OD doesn't hit towers well but he is carry.A carry is a hero who carries his team to victory be it a right clicker or a caster(such game knowledge).

                                              2ez4Hbb

                                                ad hominem at its finest by sleight of my fist in you
                                                with your opinion, why dont we just ignore the comment of normal skill player, like him ofc

                                                Sleight of My Fist In You...

                                                  tinker like od is a nuker not a carry, jesus people are so thick, a team should typically have only 1 carry which is their safelane farmer. Sure teams can get greedy and play a dusa in mid but thats playing to very specific plans and can unravel quickly with pressure. A 'carry' is a hero who can take down towers and carry the team to the win, tinker can kill the shit out of enemy heroes and can push lanes but he cant win the game on his own simply because he cant hit towers, timber is another in the same bracket as tinker, heavy nuker and lane pusher but not a tower killing carry. Sighhh im so pro at dealing with noobs 1v9 every game in sea makes you that. Even playing with safe lane slark and ursa is a risk because if you dont apply your mid game advantages when they come, late game you're rekt. they fall somewhere in between nukers and carries. But tinker for fucking sure 100% is not a carry by any practical usage of that word.

                                                  Fall in line scrubs.

                                                  love your supp

                                                    @Sleight of My Fist In You...: It's your definition of carry; not mine, not the community's, not Valve's, and definitely not the professionals'.

                                                    4FoxesIn20Boxes

                                                      @slight Your definition of carry is incorrect.

                                                      kappa

                                                        i like how 2.8k MMR player @sleight calls other people with higher MMR scrubs. LOL

                                                        what a poser. and he thinks he knows dota roles omegalul

                                                        you are 2k for a reason scrub

                                                        MM.Ugh Brock Hall

                                                          @auto muted opponent

                                                          If you are right about an issue, your skill bracket doesn't matter. But he's wrong.

                                                          Sleight of My Fist In You...

                                                            and that reason is that i dont play ranked...lmfao my computer and net are too unreliable to play seriously. I got to 2.7k mmr in early 2017 which is like less than 2 years from when i started playing in mid 2015, i think i calibrated like 2k or something and then played a couple and got to where i am atm....my knowledge of the game and skill level far surpass any try hard on here, it's a pretty simple game tbh

                                                            come back when you have a better retort than something you got from surfing my profile, sad stuff.

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