General Discussion[Kunkka] Item,skill and positioning build discussion (hard lane)

kunkka cant hardlane lol if theres atleast 1 support with iq above 50 u will be zoned out and left lvl 1 until end of the game

Then, there are almost no supports with IQ>50 where i'm playing.
tl;dr So where he is need to be played?

as rather experienced (although not brilliant) top100 kka i would say that you CAN play him as offlaner, but in any situation he is not the best possible choice for hard. Kunkka is midlaner, rarely support. Some rly mad people try to play him as carry but do not succeed (Loda, for example).

About skillbuild
Imo you gain more if invest points in X mark rather than in Torrent. 1st lvl x mark range is ridiculously small, while marginal utility of additional points invested in Torrent is quite low.

Items
I dont see point in going for vg on Kunkka, but it could be just because I never tried/seen it done by good players (although in most cases it means that its just a bad idea)
I would suggest drums and/or urn instead.
Halebard is weird and very situational, you invest a lot to get an item you dont need much, tbh. Blademail seems to be rather weird as well.
Basically there are two ways to build kunkka - sb+2x daedalus, or bf+blink+daed. You can try bf mb.

Fights
You are right, you shouldnt get right into it, better staying relative away and punishing bastaz with ship/torrent/tb harrass (and that's why I dislike the idea of purchasing blademail/vg/halebard for kka). Also, usually its better to use ghost ship in the very beginning of the teamfight, even giving up future possibility to stun more enemies, just because ship's buff is more important that its stun.

1)Well, yeah, i admit blademail are VERY,very unexpected and weird there, but it worked for a couple of times here and there.
2)So its better to get X on 8-9 lvls? Gotta try that.
3)Vg is really helpful for me, idk why, but it suits my style.
4)Halbeard is really situational, but for me its seems very useful. Often fight starts with torrent/ship/halbeard on their maincarry, and 70% of a time ,it works. Also it's a nice way to escape: X them, then disarm, run and when disarm ends, return them. Worked ~6/10.
5) Personally I dont see a good reason for bf, because kka already have a splash... whatever. will try it at some time.

And what about PT's for kunkka? I saw some pro players getting PT on him.

dont like pt myself, tried it only couple of times. better get pt if you are going for bf i guess.

For reasoning behind BF on kunkka, its better to refet to Attacker who was the creator of bf/blink build. Generally, its about splash, damage and mana regeneration.

Ahh, so it's like more aggresive build which includes more splash dmg to get your tb even more effective and X/torrent combo spam. Quite interesting build,must admit. But it seems losing its strength in the lategame, there are no lategame kunkka without at least 1 daedalus.

kunka mostly viable as mid but he kinda gets raped by majority of popular mid heroes

or roaming support

mark x torrent combo insanely stronk for pickoffs

skill build max x always torrent after that then get tidebringer ulti when possible

Kunkka as roaming semi-support? Makes sense.

And other question. What is better- crystalys stack or 1 daedalus?

daedalus unless you are in very deep troubles
btw bf build includes daedalus right after blink/bf, i mentioned it in first comment. actually, right after that you go for another daedalus, too (in most cases).

Oh, forgot about that. Thx for help.

(Better to get it somewhere so this topic will not be lost)

In Abyssal Blade I trust.

i personaly was going phases shadowblade bfury/deadalus build before mark x was changed

i guess its still good considering pubs never buy detection anyway

if not the go brown boots > blink dagger > bfury/daedalus > daedalus

and ofc most obvious thing but probably not obvious for everyone is that u should have a bottle and tp scrolls at all time

u mark the x urself u teleport to fountain u refill ur bottle heal urself and can refill bottle for ur team at the same time (roaming support mostly ) its really efficient thing to do

Id say sb and bf do not stack rly well.I mean, both are OK, but if you go for sb, youd better just get daedalus and go pure one-hit; while bf supposes also having blink.

Oh, and yeah, when to buy THE RAPIER?

either if you know to play him rly safe with blink and have enough vision, or if stuff is going rly good or bad. Otherwise, additional daedalus/mkb (in case there is evasion on enemy team) usually works better.

u can never go wrong with rapier lol

^well its like "always get normal and clever itembuild on any hero, unless you can purchase a rapier; in this case always purchase a rapier".

Desolator and AC should be considered as well.

^gg
nope. very big nope. even NOPENOPENOPENOPE.

edit: unless you are position 4 and its very late stage of the game, or somehow you try to be #1.

Deso is not that bad, but Abyssal Blade is the best item for Kunkka.

You decrease armor of main target - therefore increasing cleave damage.
It shouldn't be gotten every game, but it should be mentioned.

Abyssal is good on almost every hero.

kunkka is hit'n'run hero, not manly-fight, bash is not rly needed
additional damage of extra daedalus is greater than the one of desol/abyssal.

@gg

It doesn't work this way.

^ True. Stupid me. IDK how I forgot that.

AC is still nice on KKA.

@gg
why is ac nice?
tidebringer doesnt take into account targets' armor, only its TYPE. Ac is bad for the same reason desol is bad.

kunkka doesnt need attack speed

kunkka doesnt really need to reduce armor

so ac is big waste unless u suffer heavy physical damage

Because sometimes you need armor? And providing auras is always nice.

He doesn't need attack speed or armor reduction, but those bonuses aren't completely wasted. They are just extras.

you can purchase ac being #4, if you are #2, you should get something more "ego", cz kunkka himself doesnt need armor, armor reduction and attack speed much.

Wow, that escalated quickly. Wonder what other item ideas you will have?

situational mkb is OK

So, now... Theoretical part - done.
Gotta try it on practice.

Thx for feedback, I owe you one.

good luck, young admiral!

Practical part thingies...
Well, sb>2 daed is really good build.
Granted, positioning is VERY needed on kka. Ship/torrent combowombo is really cool for initiating.
Still building vg =P
Also, 2 crystalys are very good thing in midgame.